Graham Blackburn on youtube

[Ttrees]

Delighted to see Graham Blackburn's channel pop up on my youtube feed.
This fella's another advocate and user of the cap iron, who demonstrated it at some wood show in USA, whilst stepping in for David Charlesworth, during that post millennial phase of the premium plane "must have" era of expensive woodworking.
Graham was posting this a decade ago along with a handful of others on the forums, but yet it was a little talked about subject, as it still is going by any recent sharpening discussions in say the past year or two for example.

Great to see another craftsman for all to learn from.
Haven't watched anything yet, but surprised to see a meager 138 subs to his channel,
suppose it may not be all shiny and edited, which is probably a good thing.
Enjoy

 

[FaecesForBrains]

Very nice. Thanks.

 

[Ttrees]

Watched the first two planing videos, it seems Graham is still an advocate of tight mouths
which I wasn't expecting, unless this is for gaining the audience which stuck to their LN's
I am a bit skeptical on the matter, having done pretty much the same routine with something like a 45 honed cap iron and a mouth much the same, for quite a while.

I reckon there must have been someone who may have rained on the parade regarding
his comments or demonstrations at the time,
In a nutshell...
plane any wood, either direction, or something along those lines ...(Gimmick some might speculate!)
I believe was supposedly demonstrated, if one has a google.
I'd imagine there's folks who brings those contrary examples which refuse anything but the smoother to these shows.

I strayed down the path of scraper planes as I was getting deep tearout, before
realizing the effectiveness of a steeply honed cap iron without any mouth involved.

Tight mouths and steep cap iron's are a remedy for the plane refusing to work,
and possibly an issue for folks who might go by that rule of setting the mouth/cap iron for the shaving thickness,
so he's omitted to mention that infill plane may have the "wear" (in front of the mouth) worked to be tight but still allow the escapement of the shaving.
Maybe he's trying to appeal to a beginner audience instead or whatever, if so I fail to see why not mention this, but maybe I'm being a bit harsh on someone making their first videos,
it ain't easy to remember everything.

Still I'm skeptical on any tight mouths for no reason, well say on a panel plane at the least
after noticing how warm that area of the plane was getting.
I think that was the last straw, but maybe only because I had honed my cap at 50 degrees
as there was too much resistance, even though it still needed to be closer.
Much the same as taking finer shavings would act with the cap real close, as it would need be
to have any influence being so shallow of an angle, and yet still more issues with tearout when the iron isn't at peak sharpness compared to going steeper and not going back to the hone every 5mins.

All very noticeable if you ask me, and I fail to see how anyone is in the woods about this.
I could be just for stirring the pot, none the less I look forward to what else I might learn from him.

All the best
Tom

 

[Jacob]

Delighted to see Graham Blackburn's channel pop up on my youtube feed.
This fella's another advocate and user of the cap iron, who demonstrated it at some wood show in USA, whilst stepping in for David Charlesworth, during that post millennial phase of the premium plane "must have" era of expensive woodworking.
Graham was posting this a decade ago along with a handful of others on the forums, but yet it was a little talked about subject, as it still is going by any recent sharpening discussions in say the past year or two for example.

Great to see another craftsman for all to learn from.
Haven't watched anything yet, but surprised to see a meager 138 subs to his channel,
suppose it may not be all shiny and edited, which is probably a good thing.
Enjoy

He's half way there, getting away from modern sharpening!
Still too fussy - all that flattening! and water-stones etc. too many stones, let alone the emery paper.
Over thinking and time wasting at every stage.

 

[FaecesForBrains]

Can anybody point us to a video of a woodworker planing a sampling of species in any direction they please and producing a surface ready for a finish rather than just asserting that it's possible and they "do it all the time"?

Just because a surface is not torn, most certainly does not mean it's finish-ready. I don't care how they accomplish it, whether it's by tight mouth, cap iron, or a combination of both. No before and after photos. I'd like to see it done in real time, no pauses or editing, and with at least some video shot at a raking angle to a well-lighted surface. A lot of people claiming a surface is ready for a finish, use oil and don't really appreciate the burnishing that's taking place as they work through their oil routine, which when done properly, and traditionally, can take weeks and lots and lots of rubbing. This burnishing is hard work - harder than planing and is a very far cry from "finishing off the plane" as it most definitely continues the refinement of the surface only begun with the plane. If all this sounds somewhat foreign, it might be that exposure to an oil finish, done to a standard, hasn't been achieved. Otherwise, there are other finishes and a serious practitioner should know how to apply them all and prepare the surface to the standard required for each.

As often as this is claimed these days, you'd think there would be dozens of videos yet I'm only able to find a few and they are utterly laughable -- well below a hobbyist's standard much less a professional one. Looking for something that's not the hand planing equivalent of demonstrating hand-chopped mortises in aspen wood. Janka hardness is not always indicative, either. Some very hard species plane beautifully as long as the iron is kept sharp.

 

[Ttrees]

Can anybody point us to a video of a woodworker planing a sampling of species in any direction they please and producing a surface ready for a finish rather than just asserting that it's possible and they "do it all the time"?

Just because a surface is not torn, most certainly does not mean it's finish-ready. I don't care how they accomplish it, whether it's by tight mouth, cap iron, or a combination of both. No before and after photos. I'd like to see it done in real time, no pauses or editing, and with at least some video shot at a raking angle to a well-lighted surface. A lot of people claiming a surface is ready for a finish, use oil and don't really appreciate the burnishing that's taking place as they work through their oil routine, which when done properly, and traditionally, can take weeks and lots and lots of rubbing. This burnishing is hard work - harder than planing and is a very far cry from "finishing off the plane." If all this sounds somewhat foreign, it might be that exposure to an oil finish, done to a standard, hasn't been achieved. Otherwise, there are other finishes and a serious practitioner should know how to apply them all and prepare the surface to the standard required for each.

As often as this is claimed these days, you'd think there would be dozens of videos yet I'm only able to find a few and they are utterly laughable -- well below a hobbyist's standard much less a professional one. Looking for something that's not the hand planing equivalent of demonstrating hand-chopped mortises in aspen wood. Janka hardness is not always indicative, either. Some very hard species plane beautifully as long as the iron is kept sharp.

David W on youtube has plenty, and Derek Cohen has done some articles also, but no videos on the subject.
Few other folks,but not many.
Should not be difficult to prove this to yourself, provided something doesn't stop you
like mis information.
Open mouth, at least 50 deg of angle of the cap and it will have influence from
@ or under 1/32" away from the cutting edge. (50 degrees honed cap will not work beyond this)
It's a two plane job, as a smoother is available if you need it...
Then you can plane every/any piece in whichever direction you wish, which isn't just a gimmick and one of the most useful techniques I've ever learned in woodworking.

David (D_W here) has went to a lot of effort in making this widely known, and if it wasn't for him
I'm not sure if I would have fully grasped what Warren Mickley was saying.

In my opinion the pair of David's have done us a great deed, unmatched for their own reasons
in regards to learning how to best use a plane.
There simply hasn't been anyone who has demonstrated and explained these things since videos
were first made.
Combine both the learning how to use the plane from Mr Charlesworth's videos,
with the proper setup of the plane (influenced cap iron) makes an unmatched combination.

For anyone who is starting out, they will need to not attain bad habits and go watch Charlesworth first to get learned overnight, i.e the most precision orientated tutorials available (but with tearout)
worth looking for that old video if it's still around. (the rest is gravy if you follow only Weaver's, or Cohen's advice,)
I haven't seen anything close to this since, and that was some time back.
That's the laughable part, as everyone and their brother has made a video about hand planes. What gives?

Have fun to whomever decides to learn
All the best
Tom

 

[Ttrees]

Here is the difference between panel plane/fine set jack which is less than 1/32" distance between cap iron and iron
(it wont work if beyond this as my cap irons are honed at 50 degrees, but it might work if the cap were honed at a steeper angle)
Notice the influence i.e shavings straightening out, jumping out of the plane burnished, waxy, crinkly shavings.

Panel plane and smoother on the same timber

That smoother will tackle anything, in either direction, all of the time
and not just say 60% of the time, like the panel/jack plane which can still hog a lot of material off.

 

[FaecesForBrains]

David W on youtube has plenty, and Derek Cohen has done some articles also, but no videos on the subject.
Few other folks,but not many.
Should not be difficult to prove this to yourself, provided something doesn't stop you
like mis information.
Open mouth, at least 50 deg of angle of the cap and it will have influence from
@ or under 1/32" away from the cutting edge. (50 degrees honed cap will not work beyond this)
It's a two plane job, as a smoother is available if you need it...
Then you can plane every/any piece in whichever direction you wish, which isn't just a gimmick and one of the most useful techniques I've ever learned in woodworking.

David (D_W here) has went to a lot of effort in making this widely known, and if it wasn't for him
I'm not sure if I would have fully grasped what Warren Mickley was saying.

In my opinion the pair of David's have done us a great deed, unmatched for their own reasons
in regards to learning how to best use a plane.
There simply hasn't been anyone who has demonstrated and explained these things since videos
were first made.
Combine both the learning how to use the plane from Mr Charlesworth's videos,
with the proper setup of the plane (influenced cap iron) makes an unmatched combination.

For anyone who is starting out, they will need to not attain bad habits and go watch Charlesworth first to get learned overnight, i.e the most precision orientated tutorials available (but with tearout)
worth looking for that old video if it's still around. (the rest is gravy if you follow only Weaver's, or Cohen's advice,)
I haven't seen anything close to this since, and that was some time back.
That's the laughable part, as everyone and their brother has made a video about hand planes. What gives?

Have fun to whomever decides to learn
All the best
Tom

I haven't seen those videos, but I'll take a look. The people you've mentioned sound like makers that I need to be aware of. Looking forward to seeing their work. I assume it's beyond spectacular.

What wood are you planing in your photos?

I don't have a problem using a cap iron, but I also don't throw a board up on the bench and start finish planing it without regard to grain direction or other issues, and I don't believe others do this either on a day in, day out, project in, project out basis. Doing it on test boards vs. cavalierly risking it on live project stock are two different things entirely. In short, it's not a licence to ignore grain, and to the extent it's presented as such I think is hyperbole bordering on something worse. I don't sell woodworking videos, books, or live instruction nor do I have a stake in developing an internet reputation or persona. My forum name, while coarse, pretty much says it all.

And as I said in my earlier post, a tear out free surface is not necessarily ready for a finish. That patch of tear out one managed to at least visually rectify with the plane is still likely to pick up stains, varnishes, and shellac differently. There are all sorts of considerations. A maker might well step back and believe a project's finish looks great when it is in fact objectively ghastly to somebody used to working to a higher standard.

Again, I think those proclaiming something as "finish ready" are usually applying oil or long-oil varnishes and in that process rub **** out of the wood but are blissfully unaware that the surface is no longer as it was "from the plane." In other words, "you can rub me now or rub me later but rub you will." I've burnished freshly planed and tear out free ash with cheap paper toweling and the difference in sheen and even chatoyance is nothing short of remarkable - easily an improvement over the planed surface in looks and tactile feel. There's a less than zero chance I would ever take this routine out of my bag of tricks, at least when dealing with ash, though I understand it is currently highly unfashionable to admit to using any sort of abrasive - even one as fine as this.

All this having been said, the differences of course may very well be in the eye of the beholder and documenting them in video and still photography requires more skill than the woodworking itself.

 

[Ttrees]

I haven't seen those videos, but I'll take a look. The people you've mentioned sound like makers that I need to be aware of. Looking forward to seeing their work. I assume it's beyond spectacular.

What wood are you planing in your photos?

I don't have a problem using a cap iron, but I also don't throw a board up on the bench and start finish planing it without regard to grain direction or other issues, and I don't believe others do this either on a day in, day out, project in, project out basis. Doing it on test boards vs. cavalierly risking it on live project stock are two different things entirely. In short, it's not a licence to ignore grain, and to the extent it's presented as such I think is hyperbole bordering on something worse. I don't sell woodworking videos, books, or live instruction nor do I have a stake in developing an internet reputation or persona. My forum name, while coarse, pretty much says it all.

And as I said in my earlier post, a tear out free surface is not necessarily ready for a finish. That patch of tear out one managed to at least visually rectify with the plane is still likely to pick up stains, varnishes, and shellac differently. There are all sorts of considerations. A maker might well step back and believe a project's finish looks great when it is in fact objectively ghastly to somebody used to working to a higher standard.

Again, I think those proclaiming something as "finish ready" are usually applying oil or long-oil varnishes and in that process rub **** out of the wood but are blissfully unaware that the surface is no longer as it was "from the plane." In other words, "you can rub me now or rub me later but rub you will." I've burnished freshly planed and tear out free ash with cheap paper toweling and the difference in sheen and even chatoyance is nothing short of remarkable - easily an improvement over the planed surface in looks and tactile feel. There's a less than zero chance I would ever take this routine out of my bag of tricks, at least when dealing with ash, though I understand it is currently highly unfashionable to admit to using any sort of abrasive - even one as fine as this.

All this having been said, the differences of course may very well be in the eye of the beholder and documenting them in video and still photography requires more skill than the woodworking itself.

Sounds like yourself might actually be serious about this, if you're into a high standard of finish straight off the plane, as anyone with a plane would.
Though I don't see what the work has to do with anything, plenty of folks who've made spectacular work without knowing how to get the best from a handplane.
Fine for them, not for me for multiple reasons, like being a scrimper working pretty much exclusively reclaimed iroko, which can give one reactions.
Scraping this stuff to dimension it is a recipe for having issues, and it's mighty hard work to boot,
having to reform the edge with only a minute or two's work, a real hog compared.
I used to put those pieces aside, as it appeared they needed to be scraped, or insert fancy "type 2" wimpy shaving with tool of future wallet/time expenditure.

Now I go out of my way to try find those densest examples, and no issue planing those,
It's these timbers in which the close set cap iron shines most brightly,
and seems from what you're saying might well be beneficial to you since you mentioned risk,
which isn't an issue for someone who's thoroughly familiar with how effective the cap iron is.

I didn't say I know everything, and am always questioning Warren who actually uses his for this purpose.
He actually makes a rounded profile on his to around 80 degrees, and is the only one I believe who likes it that way,
I find it interesting as I might try getting used to 60 degrees rounded bevel, as I've got some other rosewood like exotic in which the smoother cap needs set extremely close, beyond 1/64" which seems a bit OTT to me, if one can have it further away from the edge, they can have more camber if they want.
This isn't a very talked about subject, and most of the talk is folks speculating, cuz we all don't have the kit to make a few cap irons to compare.

I have absolutely no bother honing a steeper angle on the cap irons, should I need.
but I haven't found a piece of iroko which complained with 50 degrees on the cap iron.
Easy for me to do if I need more influence, and for it not to seem like some toe curling affair,
wondering if this is a good idea or not.
That's where one has to believe...or nowadays need to see to believe,
which sorts the men from the boys, doesn't it

Enjoy watching

Tom

 

[D_W]

I think it's a little odd that anyone would assume the woodworking of yesteryear was a minefield of potentially ruining boards.

When this comes up, there are always assertions about what can and can't be done or what everyone does or doesn't do. You don't plane against the grain on purpose, but you may have low quality material or a bookmatch where the grain doesn't match, or you may guess wrong. The idea that you'd have to pussyfoot around every board to check to see if it could be planed for fear of ruining it, or to check the grain direct. No way. The only thing a beginner should have an excuse for is a lapse and planing the edges off of a board or the tips off of a board end with very poor grain orientation. It's better to not do either - don't plane across a board that's finished width and don't use wood where the grain runs out back up into the plane - how would the dovetails be suitable in wood like that, anyway?

To feel like you could walk up to a near finished case with a plane before applying moulding for fear of tearing it out is bizarre. You may have to plane a different direction, but guessing wrong with grain direction first doesn't lead to ruining the wood, and second, doesn't create some kind of international law that you have to plane all strokes in that direction.

Arguing with all of the cant's is pointless - I've seen this kind of thing for at least 15 years. If someone with reasonable planing skills demonstrates something on a case, the list of "well you can't do this" follows, and it will repeat until the argument goes to something that won't get planed at all and the "cantor" will declare victory. Stupid.

 

[thetyreman]

a tight mouth can be useful for minimising tear out, especially on a krenov style plane and smoothers, on a jack plane it's less relevant though.

 

[Ttrees]

Who's got time for tearout on their panels and whatnot?

 

[D_W]

I must be the only person who's ever plucked up a run of grain at the most inopportune time. My psyche would like to think it comes with the territory, but apparently not.

One finds the direction where the preponderance of the grain is moving and works from there. We do it with panel glue-ups, we do it when orienting material for drawer sides, when choosing and evaluating material for mouldings and subsequently running them, etc. If material is being worked by hand, one knows well before last passes are made which way grain is running or at least tending to run, and even then one isn't necessarily out of the woods. It depends on what wood is under plane. And aesthetics necessarily rears its head in the midst of all this.

Supposedly, theoretically, or actually being able to plane in any direction without tear-out doesn't obviate any of these exercises in stock selection, orientation, and placement in the project. If anybody is building to a high standard, and completely ignoring grain when planing, that's work I'd like to see - especially if done in species other than those that present few problems in the first place.

I suspect you're planing wood somewhere warmer than England - rather maybe Kentphis Kentessee? Speech pattern is recognizable, but good try using the word "cramps". But to the comment about plucking up a run of grain - if that's occurring after the jack plane on flat work, I don't get it. We're not talking about little fuzzy bits from planing against grain that's literally oriented into the bed angle of the plane, right? but like whole big fingers of something that are really hard to scrape or sand out?

To the rest of the things, I have no idea why being able to plane without tearout would cancel out anything else. there's still a visual aspect. Aren't some of these panels bookmatched, and if they are, there will be differing grain directions unless the most perfect available wood is used. I haven't found it.

In the last 5 years, I've run through something like 1000 bf of cherry and a bunch of other things, almost all of it planed by hand one way or another and I can't remember any unexpected anything other than pushing side grain off of a panel that was intentionally wide to allow that, and in the case of planing some wood that was just outright junk, small knots that came loose.

There is one real practical problem if wood is really that bad, and it's jack planing if you don't have a power jointer or you don't use a thicknesser. Wood can be so bad it's impractical to use with a jack plane without setting the cap close and in that case, renting time on a spiral planer or large drum sander is smarter. That same stuff is also not trustworthy with joinery, so again - skeptical that people who say they're using that or 400 feet of 3500 janka hardness wood that they're actually doing it.

----------------------------

Separately, for anyone who isn't harping on this just to troll, if you're a beginner and you find that you are having issues just getting a continuous downgrain or cross grain cut in hardwood with a jack plane - before you even get to plane where the practicality of the cap iron shows through - spend a little more time finding better wood. If you're using the better bits out of common lumber selected out or what's FAS grade here in the states and there is tearout trouble, you either solve the tearout issue with better plane setup or you'll never do much with planes.

The other troll here is that somehow to use a plane well means you finish with it and you never scrape or sand, or that you can't blend in a planed surface with one that's scraped. horsesh .....

 

[D_W]

This reminds me why I don't post on forums much. Hypothetical nonsense with assertions that things you can do easily can't be done. Just stupid. I dealt with the same garbage over heat treating. "You'll never get even an average furnace result heat treating in the open atmosphere".

Charlie, what am I to conclude? I'm blown away by the idea that you can't solve routine tearout and I have no interest in your shifting questions. It leaves me thinking there's a hole in your reasoning somewhere. This whole thing isn't hard and claiming that it is is misleading and stupid for anyone who actually decides they'll work by hand. I have a feeling it was solved within weeks for everyone who was shown the double iron 225 years ago and somehow now, we have to describe it as sketchy and then refer to single iron moulding planes.

I really have no idea what motivates you, but I've given you the benefit of the doubt off and on over the last several years while you create endless alts and respond with BS to my posts and then pretend it isn't you. I have no idea why I bothered at this point. Really.