Graf Zeppelin

[paulrbarnard]

Thank you for your comments. I am pleased with the way the Zeppelin turned out but regrettably it has come with a down side.
The child bride has always been ambivalent towards the aircraftery, regarding the production of aircraft models as some sort of weird male aberration which is best not looked into too closely.
That changed with the airship in that she quite likes the shape of the thing and appreciates the work that went into it, and in the convoluted realms of female logic decided that since I could build that, I must also be capable of a complete kitchen remodel that she has been contemplating for some time. I new she had these ideas of course but naievely didn't think they would have anything to do with me. And it gets worse - she want the bathroom done as well. No more modeling for the forseeable future

I have one just like her. Please post a work in progress of the kitchen

 

[Sachakins]

Well, you could start off with modelling the kitchen and bathroom first, but, and it's a big but, you could make a decidedly poor set of models, under the guise that it proves you can't do flat work, only finally crafted curved stuff like planes etc

 

[Ozi]

This photo shows the R101 just before her maiden flight, state of the art for 1930. My wifes grandfather in the foreground with a horse harrow that would have impressed an iron age farmer. Things have changed fast in the last hundred years or so.

 

[AES]

This photo shows the R101 just before her maiden flight, state of the art for 1930. My wifes grandfather in the foreground with a horse harrow that would have impressed an iron age farmer. Things have changed fast in the last hundred years or so.
View attachment 185379

Lovely photo Ozi, thanks for posting.

 

[Fergie 307]

Thank you for your comments. I am pleased with the way the Zeppelin turned out but regrettably it has come with a down side.
The child bride has always been ambivalent towards the aircraftery, regarding the production of aircraft models as some sort of weird male aberration which is best not looked into too closely.
That changed with the airship in that she quite likes the shape of the thing and appreciates the work that went into it, and in the convoluted realms of female logic decided that since I could build that, I must also be capable of a complete kitchen remodel that she has been contemplating for some time. I new she had these ideas of course but naievely didn't think they would have anything to do with me. And it gets worse - she want the bathroom done as well. No more modeling for the forseeable future

Oh I don't know. I could see the zeppelin shape lending itself to a bath

 

[Kittyhawk]

Wasn't the empire state building supposed to be a mooring tower for a zeppelin? You could go the whole hog and make a model of that.

NO!

AES, was your 'no' I shouldn't model the Empire State Building or no, the building did not have a mooring mast?
I think I read someplace that the owners of the building wanted to have a mooring tower atop of it but the airship owners pointed out the impracticality and dangers of operating a Zeppelin at low altitude over a city and also the hugely risky business of disembarking passengers by a gangway hundreds of feet up. The building owners went ahead anyway and had the tower built but to a reduced standard. If I remember what I read correctly there was said to be some discussion as to whether the building people were serious in wanting a mooring tower or whether it was just a ruse to complete the Empire State with a nice little spike to cap off their masterpiece.

 

[Ozi]

Correct, Nevil Shute Norway (when writing novels he used his middle name as a surname as he didn't think "serious aircraft engineers" wrote novels in their spare time)!

The R100 did end up at Cardington, but initial design work was done at the Vickers works in Crayford, Kent, and the actual structural work was done in a disused ex WWI RN airship shed in Yorkshire.

R101 was always at Cardington.

Are those "airship sheds" still there? It's where I did my initial RAF entry selection tests and interview in 1960? (NOT in the sheds though)!

"On the Beach" was one of I think about 20 or so novels he had published from the early 1930's to his death, in Australia in I think 1960.

The sheds are still there, used by all sorts of people including film making and the building research laboratory. Up close they give you a feel for the size of these things, what it must have been like to stand under the Hindenburg is hard to imagine. Doubt I will ever get to the museum but it sounds fascinating.

 

[MikeJhn]

Great thread, very interesting for any aviation fan. 🛩

 

[TRITON]

I'm a bit worried that the spoke being used to hold it to the tower isnt really strong enough to stop it sagging.
Spokes are strong only as they're part of a tension system.

When you see pics of these airships landing, there are other ropes that come from the cab area down to handlers on the ground. So maybe run a couple of more spokes cab to ground with a little tiny figure to disguise them.
I know it might spoil the overall look, but if it starts to bend under its own weight, straightening that front mount might be difficult to do.

 

[AES]

AES, was your 'no' I shouldn't model the Empire State Building or no, the building did not have a mooring mast?
I think I read someplace that the owners of the building wanted to have a mooring tower atop of it but the airship owners pointed out the impracticality and dangers of operating a Zeppelin at low altitude over a city and also the hugely risky business of disembarking passengers by a gangway hundreds of feet up. The building owners went ahead anyway and had the tower built but to a reduced standard. If I remember what I read correctly there was said to be some discussion as to whether the building people were serious in wanting a mooring tower or whether it was just a ruse to complete the Empire State with a nice little spike to cap off their masterpiece.

There was no problem with flying airships "low" over the city. During regular airship services they rarely flew above about 2,500 ft max anywhere, and of course, for the landing run in - for example, at the USN airship base at Lakehurst NJ, quite near NY city centre - were flying much lower than that. And there are several photos of both Graf Zeppelin and Hindenburg flying pretty close to the Empire State Building and apparently at about the same height.

The basic problem with operating airships within a restricted space - e.g. top Empire State Building - was access and space for the MANY ground crew needed. Just as someone has said above, for the initial part of the landing, before securing the ship to any tower/mast, they needed about 200 to 300 blokes. The initial part of the landing (once down to about <100 ft and with a V low forward speed) involved chucking loads of ropes from ship to ground so that the ground crew could grab them and then very gently manhandle the ship to it's mooring mast/tower (acting under orders shouted through megaphone by the Captain standing at the front of the control position - "ship's bridge").

AFAIK (up for correction) there was never any sort of airship mooring mast/tower on the Empire State Building. Landing an airship was a bit different to landing a helicopter today.

HTH.

And BTW, I'm pleased and surprised that so many members found my initial post on the subject so interesting. Indeed a fascinating backwater (?) of aviation history.

And once more, a SUPERB model kittyhawk.

 

[velar]

Not the usual sort of thing that comes out of the aircraftery.
It's a 'for me' build that been going for a while and often relegated to the back burner as aeroplane commissions came along. Its construction was not driven by any great interest in airships but more from stumbling across photos online and, from a modeller's perspective, wondering how on earth would you build such a thing, especially the mounting which would need to give the impression of the airship floating in air, tethered to its mooring mast. So, an irresistable challenge.
I wanted to build the Graf Zeppelin, LZ127, and the first problem was that just about every online photo was different. This was finally resolved when the penny dropped - just about every airship of the Graf Zeppelin era was referred to as a Zeppelin which tended to complicate things a lot. There is also a big variation in mooring towers and the one depicted is the Recife Tower in Brazil, sort of. The Zeppelin is cantilevered off the top of the tower so the stays are a lot higher up the mast than in reality, along with a few other modifications to provide the neccessary strength.
View attachment 185339
View attachment 185340
View attachment 185342
Calculations by a friend with an engineering background, mucking around with bit of wire and weights deduced that the airship weight for a length of 54cm should not exceed, from memory, 250g if it should be attached to the top of the tower by a wire of around 2.5mm diameter.
The cross section of the Zeppelin is circular but comprised of 28 flat sections around the circumference which suggested a boat type construction which further appealed as a former boatbuilder. So the model has a central keel from a piece of 16mm dowel, a turned nose and tail cap and 9 equally spaced circular frames of 3mm MDF. The 28 planks were cut to 2.5mm thick, probably now 2mm after sanding. Planking was straightforward but forward ends had to be steamed to get the bend. A steamer was fabricated out of scrap pipe and welded to a base. When hot and bendy the end was poked into a curved slot in a bit of MDF to set the shape. Its all a bit budget but it did the job ok.
View attachment 185354
In the end, the Zeppelin came out at 207g. The connection between the tower and the airship is via a length of 13 gauge bicycle spoke bent at right angles.
The attachments to the hull were a bit difficult as I didn't fully appreciate the scale which at a 54cm length is around 400 : 1. Consequently the windows around the front of the gondola are 2mm square, the propellers - one two bladed and four 4 bladed are 11mm in diameter, the engine nacelles 6mm x 9mm and attached to the airship by 0.5mm wires. All doable but tricky for a man with stumpy fingers.
But I'm happy with how it turned out in the end.

Incredible work! Beautiful...

 

[Silken]

Nice project, great display piece

 

[rob1693]

Beautiful model masterfully rendered, ozi's picture shows how accurate the piece it is

 

[Kittyhawk]

I'm a bit worried that the spoke being used to hold it to the tower isnt really strong enough to stop it sagging.
Spokes are strong only as they're part of a tension system.

When you see pics of these airships landing, there are other ropes that come from the cab area down to handlers on the ground. So maybe run a couple of more spokes cab to ground with a little tiny figure to disguise them.
I know it might spoil the overall look, but if it starts to bend under its own weight, straightening that front mount might be difficult to do.

That connection is as you point out a cause for concern.
Normal bicycle spokes are 1.8mm in diameter but the one used is from a dismantled electric bike and is 2.4mm diameter. It is a stainless steel spoke and not glued into the tower or airship and is easily removable from both. So far it's been dangling off the wire for over a week without any sign of deformation. Metal work is pretty much outside my experience so I don't know if not bending over a week means it will not bend in the future. I do know that stainless steel is relatively soft so the backup position should the spoke deform would be to replace it with a piece of 2.5mm high tensile steel welding rod.

 

[AES]

That connection is as you point out a cause for concern.
Normal bicycle spokes are 1.8mm in diameter but the one used is from a dismantled electric bike and is 2.4mm diameter. It is a stainless steel spoke and not glued into the tower or airship and is easily removable from both. So far it's been dangling off the wire for over a week without any sign of deformation. Metal work is pretty much outside my experience so I don't know if not bending over a week means it will not bend in the future. I do know that stainless steel is relatively soft so the backup position should the spoke deform would be to replace it with a piece of 2.5mm high tensile steel welding rod.

Sounds good to me Kittyhawk. And if it does bend, after this amount of time I guess it won't be by all that much. And, WITH CARE, a good eye plus a couple of pairs of decent parallel jaw pliers it's normally not too difficult to straighten any wire of such diameter - maybe even with a little help from a bench vise.

Personally, in your position I wouldn't be worrying too much.

 

[Cabinetman]

Super model, now maybe a Hangar in the background?
I saw the ones at Tustin California in the distance a few years ago and was blown away by the mindbogglingly immense size of them. They still are amongst the largest wooden structures ever built.
Ian

 

[TRITON]

That connection is as you point out a cause for concern.
Normal bicycle spokes are 1.8mm in diameter but the one used is from a dismantled electric bike and is 2.4mm diameter. It is a stainless steel spoke and not glued into the tower or airship and is easily removable from both. So far it's been dangling off the wire for over a week without any sign of deformation. Metal work is pretty much outside my experience so I don't know if not bending over a week means it will not bend in the future. I do know that stainless steel is relatively soft so the backup position should the spoke deform would be to replace it with a piece of 2.5mm high tensile steel welding rod.

Yeah I reckon a 2.5mm welding rood would hold it fine and without bending, even over time as thats going to be far below any forces acting on it.

As a kid my Dad was at Cranfield university, and we lived on campus in the married quarters.

That place is amazing when you're a kid. Vast open blue skies crisscrossed with vapour trails and a lot of gliders doing their swoopy stuff. There was also i think an airship docking mast as i seem to remember a tall red and white mast. Might also have a pic of an airship there, though this was the early 70's and memory is a bit vague.