Good reason to leave your table saw guard on

[Jacob]

Still not clear! Do you mean you are ripping through the frame while the glass is still in? Is that how you get the glass out? Looks bloody difficult not least the risk of broken glass all over the place!
As I said I always remove the glass by cutting through the corners of the frame, usually with a hand saw, and then just tapping the woodwork away from the glass. Would that not work with yours?
Push stick - I buy these occasionally from Axminster etc and make copies from ply or mdf as they get hacked about eventually. Good idea to use the same pattern and this shape is carefully thought out - better than it looks!

 

[Ttrees]

That's how I procure my timber Jacob, glass, screws, nails and putty gets removed beforehand.
The only putty left is on the rebate, or cove which I rip off leaving the sliver to snap off like a kit kat.

How best to do these, to be honest it seems like a cross between a rip cut and a rebate.

Yes been waiting to find some MDF for the pushsticks, not much of that around my workshop.
I have some softer ply which I will use if need be.
five minute job for the bandsaw.

Curious what you'd overhead guard you would choose,
bearing in mind I have lots of timbers like that, that fillet is waste, but I often cut out a wee stick from other timbers.

Just haven't got around to scraping the rest of the putty off to even consider processing.

Just a wee taste of what I'm talking about, can often get that load like that from a skip.
But not until the very last piece is processed though, them's the rules of the skip gods apparently

 

[ScottandSargeant]

I made a guard for my wee saw. It's made of steel, 20mm steel rod on the upright, 16mm square on the support and the guard is 3mm welded steel. It's pretty basic, so is the saw, but so far, it has behaved very well, but I spent a lot of time adjusting/shimming everything to get it in line

View attachment 119305

Nice fabrication and I hate to sound like a kill joy, but you should use a riving knife of the correct width set at the corretc distance to reduce chances of kickback. It can be dangerous without

 

[TRITON]

Nice fabrication and I hate to sound like a kill joy, but you should use a riving knife of the correct width set at the corretc distance to reduce chances of kickback. It can be dangerous without

And have the blade set at the correct height for the timber going through. Ripping a piece of 30mm, the height to the underside of the guard shouldnt exceed 35mm. Closer is better, unless of course theres a bit of bowing.

 

[Stevekane]

That's how I procure my timber Jacob, glass, screws, nails and putty gets removed beforehand.
The only putty left is on the rebate, or cove which I rip off leaving the sliver to snap off like a kit kat.

How best to do these, to be honest it seems like a cross between a rip cut and a rebate.

Yes been waiting to find some MDF for the pushsticks, not much of that around my workshop.
I have some softer ply which I will use if need be.
five minute job for the bandsaw.

Curious what you'd overhead guard you would choose,
bearing in mind I have lots of timbers like that, that fillet is waste, but I often cut out a wee stick from other timbers.

Just haven't got around to scraping the rest of the putty off to even consider processing.

Just a wee taste of what I'm talking about, can often get that load like that from a skip.
But not until the very last piece is processed though, them's the rules of the skip gods apparently
View attachment 119337

Just as a matter of interest what are you doing with all that wood?
Ive broken up a few casements for the glass and Ive found that just giving the frame a whack or two from the inside just opens up the joints and the glass lifts out nice and clean, but looking at the quantity you have I suspect Im telling you something you already know!
Steve.

 

[Sandyn]

but you should use a riving knife of the correct width set at the corretc distance to reduce chances of kickback. It can be dangerous without

Thanks. It would have been my preference to fit a riving knife, but because of the design of the saw, it would have just ended up as a splitter which looked like a riving knife. It has to be fitted to the table, so it was easier to just add a wooden splitter. The saw can take a 14 inch blade. I positioned the splitter for a 14 inch blade, but started with a 12 inch. That scared me how much of the blade was showing, hence the guard. Now I'm using a 10 inch thin kerf and will probably get round to reworking the splitter some day.
It's not near as scary as the saw I used when I was young, PTO driven from a tractor, huge steel blade, no guard, unguarded belts, unguarded PTO, wet wood, it was crosscutting firewood, so not so bad. Fortunately I survived, happy days!! I did more damage with the bushman saw and axe

@TRITON ah!! slight difficulty. To drop the blade, you actually have a knob on the right (usually me) which tilts the table up, hence lowering the blade, but the table is at an angle, so I just leave it at the same height. Sounds like a really stupid design and it is!, but that's how it's done on this saw. I usually have the guard down as low as possible. last wood I was ripping as about 55mm thick.

 

[Ttrees]

I mill it all down with the aim of laminating it together, and for smaller bits for other trim
I even keep wee sticks for kumiko, or whatever might suit.
Nothing to do with sawing up a whole window or crosscutting timbers, although my blade might suggest otherwise, it might be a bit on the fine side for ripping.

I love saying to mates, few swipes of a plane and you could eat your dinner from it.
Mate joked to herself recently, is he still going over all the wood with the metal detector, lol.

 

[Jacob]

And have the blade set at the correct height for the timber going through. Ripping a piece of 30mm, the height to the underside of the guard shouldnt exceed 35mm. Closer is better, unless of course theres a bit of bowing.

Yes, closer means less distance of blade movement and less slingshot effect.
OTOH on a spindle the circumference speed may be high but the distance travelled (on a typical cutter) is small so kick back risk is less. Tends to be a bit of a bang and the workpiece just jumps a bit sideways and gets chopped, if you are lucky!

 

[MikeJhn]

My take on an overhead crown guard:

 

[Jacob]

My take on an overhead crown guard:

View attachment 119368

Looks good but wouldn't you need some sort of technician always on hand to keep it working and properly set up?
What happens if you want to tilt the blade?
Would it stand a sidewise knock from clumsily handled 3x6" timber?
Would there be a special brush kit or something to clean the transparent bits every ten minutes or so?
Top marks for complexity!

 

[John Brown]

Looks good but wouldn't you need some sort of technician always on hand to keep it working and properly set up?
What happens if you want to tilt the blade?
Would it stand a sidewise knock from clumsily handled 3x6" timber?
Would there be a special brush kit or something to clean the transparent bits every ten minutes or so?
Top marks for complexity!

That's a bit heavy-handed, Jacob. You could just stick to being helpful...

 

[dennisk]

i agree with John Brown . if someone wants to make a guard and it works then he should be commended. 45 years in to the carpentry life and i dont use a guard or a splitter, and i use one push plate(not a stick) and if im using suspect lumber then i will clamp a shorter rip fence to the Beseimeyer clone that came with my powermatic 66
speaking of Rube Goldberg contaptions not sure if youve seen the factory guard spitter thing that came with this saw, but it is still in the box for the last 20 years.
i think not enough emphasis is being put on the ability to shut the saw down with a knee to a large switch plate cover so as soon as trouble is sensed the saw can be shut down.
ill bet most of the saws being talked about here have a switch that needs to be reached for with a finger and it isnt always right where you need it.
i spend several hundred hours on this saw every year cutting up sheet goods for cabinets, and mdf and lumber for trims etc.
never used a guard and never will, common sense and an easy way to turn the saw off in my opinion are much more important.
i run with scissors too.

 

[Jacob]

That's a bit heavy-handed, Jacob. You could just stick to being helpful...

I thought I was.
I think the plain and simple crown guard on riving knife is likely to be safer than many of these elaborate contraptions - mainly because it is rugged, simple, needs no attention, reliable etc.
As I said earlier - there was a vogue for replacing them with "better" alternatives which seems to have gone out of fashion, and not before time IMHO!

 

[Jacob]

i agree with John Brown . if someone wants to make a guard and it works then he should be commended. 45 years in to the carpentry life and i dont use a guard or a splitter, and i use one push plate(not a stick) and if im using suspect lumber then i will clamp a shorter rip fence to the Beseimeyer clone that came with my powermatic 66
speaking of Rube Goldberg contaptions not sure if youve seen the factory guard spitter thing that came with this saw, but it is still in the box for the last 20 years.
i think not enough emphasis is being put on the ability to shut the saw down with a knee to a large switch plate cover so as soon as trouble is sensed the saw can be shut down.
ill bet most of the saws being talked about here have a switch that needs to be reached for with a finger and it isnt always right where you need it.
i spend several hundred hours on this saw every year cutting up sheet goods for cabinets, and mdf and lumber for trims etc.
never used a guard and never will, common sense and an easy way to turn the saw off in my opinion are much more important.
i run with scissors too.

Well and good but accidents with TS are the most common especially with novices. A quick switch off may be too late.
PS but yes a knee switch is good, several in fact so you can switch off from different sides/positions

 

[Ttrees]

Well we knew that Jacob was talking nonsense from the get go, no surprise there John.
Taking offense would be a bit silly. I think those who built their own are smiling at the pot shots.

That seems to be a theme of his regarding overhead guards when a question is put to him on the specific subject, as it's not the first time he has attempted knocking these tools....

Unless, I've incorrectly assumed so, and infact he actually has knowledge of a better design but is keeping it for himself?
Maybe he's in with some crowd who have something to do with that, hence the hollow answer.

Now, if there was actually some seemingly disgruntled person who would speak his mind from time to time on the issue, and not have some agenda or another, then that would be helpful.
Will anyone else step up to the challenge of being king grump, with a real answer?

Tom

 

[Ttrees]

Well and good but accidents with TS are the most common especially with novices. A quick switch off may be too late.

Yes we all know accidents with circular saws in the USA average something like sixty thousand reported accidents a year, that's just a fact, and not an answer.
Have you got employed by Festool or Bosch Jacob, as that's quite a "gas" attempt at an answer.

 

[Jacob]

Well we knew that Jacob was talking nonsense from the get go, no surprise there John.
Taking offense would be a bit silly. I think those who built their own are smiling at the pot shots.

That seems to be a theme of his regarding overhead guards when a question is put to him on the specific subject, as it's not the first time he has attempted knocking these tools....

That's because some years back someone posted up about his near serious accident due to very clever home made so-called "SUVA" guide getting caught and virtually exploding. This was when DIY "improved" guards were the fashion. Everybody was talking about them.
The more elaborate the device the more likely it is to fail, or to be too much trouble to set up if you are in a hurry etc. Though I can see that a purpose made device might be handy for some sort of production runs, and they feature on bigger industrial machines.

Unless, I've incorrectly assumed so, and infact he actually has knowledge of a better design but is keeping it for himself?
...

No secret - I use a very conventional riving knife plus crown guard which came with the machine, along with a push stick, and leave it on nearly all the time. I still can't quite see why you aren't using one with your window sections.
The few occasions I might take the guard off, for a deep cut for instance, I carefully use two push sticks.

 

[Sgian Dubh]

I use a very conventional riving knife plus crown guard which came with the machine, along with a push stick, and leave it on nearly all the time. I still can't quite see why you aren't using one with your window sections.
The few occasions I might take the guard off, for a deep cut for instance, I carefully use two push sticks.

Jacob, you might be surprised to discover that I'm largely in agreement with you. Certainly, when it comes to ripping with a typical European bench saw supplied with an adjustable rip fence, a riving knife and crown guard both configured essentially in line within HSE guidelines, plus push sticks, the general safety issues are covered as much as can be practically expected.

Alternative manufacturer configurations designed for the European market, mostly seen on large sliding table saws, Altendorf, for instance follow similar safety set up patterns. The main difference here generally is that the riving knife and crown guard aren't connected. Usually the riving knife is set about 0.5 - 1 mm below the top of the arc described by the blade and the crown guard is mounted on an arm. Similar safety protection is provided assuming proper set-up.

I won't comment on the various home made riving knife and crown guards devised by people. I suspect some are good and others poor, but it's hard to say without an up close inspection and a trial run or three. Slainte.

 

[Ttrees]

Yes Jacob, I have a mock up of something which would likely do the same thing, and explode.
That was a DIY solution for fun, now I have a welder (forty pound for the cheapest welder in Liddles)
I have the opportunity make a proper "shop made overhead guard"
i.e something which you could hit with a hammer or a long length of timber and it would still be good.

I could say the same about your bog standard riving knife being more delicate than what I want to make, but I won't go there.

The reason I haven't knocked together an aluminium crown guard for the knife, you hint?
Well these cuts are one of the main reasons I own a tablesaw.
I don't really use it otherwise.
I have an capable 24" bandsaw, not something under 20" which can rip without faff.
I can be more frugal with the material, it's quieter, safer, cleaner for my clothes, needs less rigging up and maybe more.
Going to work on more bells and whistles to make my TS as usable as the bandsaw, but
want to get a better design to take notes from.

I don't claim to have any knowledge or opinion on what counts as ergonomic and well thought out regarding the use of these guards, which is why a good cynical view is appreciated, that is...
by someone who has a suggestion on the best bits or their favourite things from various designs,
and things they don't like...

Pretending one doesn't need nor want a floating guard, for an ever so possibly...
confrontational picture posted, be it either a rip or a trench cut could be just one facet of a possibly interesting discussion from the pro's.

I'm not going to rig up the saw and show you, as I wouldn't be bothered with that malarkey.
I don't take a tablesaw lightly, it deserves respect, as has been pointed out.

Like it or lump it, being a hobbyist, its a valid source of supply for me, and I have need to do this specific task.
I don't mind if its hassle or whatever, I am prepared to do it.

I'm even patient enough to wait for the final word regarding overhead tablesaw guard technology,
whenever you get round to getting your TM registered.

And when Jacob's Jacob has their say, and it finally IS deemed the best crown guard ever made, I will be copying it in a WIP and giving a good pictures so all can make their own....
and thus the Far East will copy suit, and then they can be spat back at ya and Mr Gass!
and so in time, all can have guards which won't cost the earth.

Tom

 

[Jacob]

Yes Jacob, I have a mock up of something which would likely do the same thing, and explode.
That was a DIY solution for fun, now I have a welder (forty pound for the cheapest welder in Liddles)
I have the opportunity make a proper "shop made overhead guard"
i.e something which you could hit with a hammer or a long length of timber and it would still be good.

I could say the same about your bog standard riving knife being more delicate than what I want to make, but I won't go there.

The reason I haven't knocked together an aluminium crown guard for the knife, you hint?
Well these cuts are one of the main reasons I own a tablesaw.
I don't really use it otherwise.
I have an capable 24" bandsaw, not something under 20" which can rip without faff.
I can be more frugal with the material, it's quieter, safer, cleaner for my clothes, needs less rigging up and maybe more.
Going to work on more bells and whistles to make my TS as usable as the bandsaw, but
want to get a better design to take notes from.

I don't claim to have any knowledge or opinion on what counts as ergonomic and well thought out regarding the use of these guards, which is why a good cynical view is appreciated, that is...
by someone who has a suggestion on the best bits or their favourite things from various designs,
and things they don't like...

Pretending one doesn't need nor want a floating guard, for an ever so possibly...
confrontational picture posted, be it either a rip or a trench cut could be just one facet of a possibly interesting discussion from the pro's.

I'm not going to rig up the saw and show you, as I wouldn't be bothered with that malarkey.
I don't take a tablesaw lightly, it deserves respect, as has been pointed out.

Like it or lump it, being a hobbyist, its a valid source of supply for me, and I have need to do this specific task.
I don't mind if its hassle or whatever, I am prepared to do it.

I'm even patient enough to wait for the final word regarding overhead tablesaw guard technology,
whenever you get round to getting your TM registered.

And when Jacob's Jacob has their say, and it finally IS deemed the best crown guard ever made, I will be copying it in a WIP and giving a good pictures so all can make their own....
and thus the Far East will copy suit, and then they can be spat back at ya and Mr Gass!
and so in time, all can have guards which won't cost the earth.

Tom

You still haven't explained why you need an over head crown guard rather than the simpler riving knife attachment.
No need to copy mine it's off the shelf it came with the machine and is commonplace. They are all much the same because people have realised they are the safest, simplest and cheapest.
PS identical to Doug's in first post Good reason to leave your table saw guard on
Mine has the usual connector for HPLV hose but most of the dust is LPHV from below via 5" port.