Golden rules

[Mr T]

Hi

One of the golden rules I always teach my students is that YOU MUST ALWAYS DRY CLAMP BEFORE GLUING UP. However another golden rule, which I must admit I tend to ignore is NEVER PUSH HOME YOUR DOVETAILS, THEY SHOULD ONLY BE TEST FITTED ABOUT A THIRD OF THE WAY UNTIL FINAL GLUING.

How do others square this circle?

Chris

 

[woodbloke]

Interesting Chris. I dry run before a glue up is a 'must do', especially if it's a complicated one, but I've got a mixed view on the dovetail fitting issue. Sometimes I cut the little devils a mite on the tight side so it pays me to fit and adjust them almost all the way to the bottom of the socket. On the other hand, if they're a push-fit by hand affair and I can see that they'd go all the way to the bottom without too much hassle, then they can be pushed in roughly half-way. Certainly for lapped dovetails in drawers, I always try to ensure that they're pulled up with a cramp and then it's removed (I don't like the wooden block and hammer way) for the joints to set without it, as it makes it easier to adjust for squareness - Rob

 

[Paul Chapman]

One of the golden rules I always teach my students is that YOU MUST ALWAYS DRY CLAMP BEFORE GLUING UP.

I agree. I always have a complete dry run before glueing up. That way you can reduce the stress by about 90% because you know before you apply the glue what you are going to do, how long it will take and whether it will work.

My other golden rule is if you are going to require assistance, make sure you choose someone you can work with and who isn't going to argue about how you're doing it half way through......... :evil:

As for dovetails, it depends how good you are at cutting them......

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[xy mosian]

My other golden rule is if you are going to require assistance, make sure you choose someone you can work with and who isn't going to argue about how you're doing it half way through......... :evil:
Paul

Couldn't agree more on that one. My last project at school was a dining chair. Of course the visiting student teacher homed in on me and successfully got me to put the back legs on upside down. Didn't discover this until the cascamite had gone off. :evil:

xy

 

[woodbloke]

...student teacher homed in on me and successfully got me to put the back legs on upside down. Didn't discover this until the cascamite had gone off. :evil:

xy

...slightly dis-chuffed I should imagine XY - Rob

 

[doctor Bob]

I never dry fit stuff, yes i'll check a tenon's fit as it's done, but as for say assembling a table dry, never, I much prefer double checking my cutting list a few times.
I just make sure I have everything in place ready for the glue up.
The odd mistake happens but nothing which can't be overcome and the time saved for me is worth it.
I believe the most valuable time is spent on getting a cutting list spot on, and checking it a few times prior to commencing any project. Designing stuff on the back of a *** packet is asking for trouble.

 

[Paul Chapman]

I never dry fit stuff

I think it's a bit different for us hobby woodworkers, Bob. Most of the things I make are one-offs so every glue-up is different, and I imagine that's true for many other hobbyists. Also, we work in small workshops where we can't always have dedicated areas for things like assembly. So for the hobbyist there are more chances for things to go wrong.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[xy mosian]

...student teacher homed in on me and successfully got me to put the back legs on upside down. Didn't discover this until the cascamite had gone off. :evil:

xy

...slightly dis-chuffed I should imagine XY - Rob

Too right Rob, 44 years later and I've only just stopped fuming

xy

 

[Mr T]

Call me Mr Cautious but I still always dry fit and 99 times out of a hundred it's Ok, so it's probably just a ritual now. However I do think the dry clamp helps to identify possible problems on a difficult glue up and of cause it does mean that all your clamps and blocks are all there ready and set to the right lengths to make the glue up straight forward.

Why shouldn't dovetails be pushed together anyway!!??

Chris

 

[Phil Sewell]

Chris, along with other woodwork I make boxes which are all jointed with hand cut dovetails. I always dry fit. For one thing I want to see the quality of the joints before I spend anymore time on the box but I need to have them dry fiited to get exact dimensions for other parts of the making process. I have no problems whatsoever dry fitting, what I do do is put a slight chamfer on the inside of the tails to protect the ends of the pins, I've cut so many I'm fairly accurate with the fit. Couple of pics, one with dovetails on a compound curve which are particularly challenging. Note the Krenov influence, I spent a few months at the Redwoods college, although I worked out my own way of cutting the dovetails!
P.

 

[doctor Bob]

Call me Mr Cautious but I still always dry fit and 99 times out of a hundred it's Ok, so it's probably just a ritual now. However I do think the dry clamp helps to identify possible problems on a difficult glue up and of cause it does mean that all your clamps and blocks are all there ready and set to the right lengths to make the glue up straight forward.

Why shouldn't dovetails be pushed together anyway!!??

Chris

It's very good exercise running around trying to find the pins which are missing out of the clamps as the glue goes off. :lol:

 

[Paul Chapman]

It's very good exercise running around trying to find the pins which are missing out of the clamps as the glue goes off. :lol:

Save your legs, Bob - replace those pins with nuts and bolts which don't drop out.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[yetloh]

My other golden rule is if you are going to require assistance, make sure you choose someone you can work with and who isn't going to argue about how you're doing it half way through......... :evil:

Paul

For some unaccountable reason, I am happy for my wife to assist me with gluing up. We fight over all sorts of things but not this, possibly because she thinks I know what I am doing! Mind you, we do have a dry trial run first so that we both know pretty much what we are doing. The other golden rule that helps is never to start it unless there is clearly more than enough time and neither is knackered at the end of a long day. If it's complicated a good bottle of wine to follow completion rounds things off nicely.

Jim

 

[doctor Bob]

It's very good exercise running around trying to find the pins which are missing out of the clamps as the glue goes off. :lol:

Save your legs, Bob - replace those pins with nuts and bolts which don't drop out.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

No, that would drive me more mental........ if thats possible

 

[bugbear]

Hi

One of the golden rules I always teach my students is that YOU MUST ALWAYS DRY CLAMP BEFORE GLUING UP. However another golden rule, which I must admit I tend to ignore is NEVER PUSH HOME YOUR DOVETAILS, THEY SHOULD ONLY BE TEST FITTED ABOUT A THIRD OF THE WAY UNTIL FINAL GLUING.

How do others square this circle?

Chris

No contradiction, surely? One can dry clamp (i.e. make sure you know your clamping sequence, have all needed clamps to hand, all packing/padding ready, all sash clamps with pins in the right hole etc), without pushing the joints fully home.

BugBear

 

[Sawyer]

Re; glue ups, my golden rules. This assumes that I've already satisfied myself that everything fits.

1. Have everything ready before starting: cramps, blocks, glue, hammers, squaring rods, &c. &c.
2. Make haste, slowly!
3. Check for size and square. Once the glue's dry, it's too late!
4. Clear up as much glue spillage as possible. Much easier before it dries.
5. During a glue up; don't disturb or interrupt me. (hammer) My wife's "Can you just ...." meets with a resounding "No! Ask me afterwards."

I don't pre-fit dovetails, just push them about 1/4 home to check they are accurate. If so, they should fit.