Going out on your own

[Monk]

Hey, I'm sure a lot of people have asked the same question. I'm a joiner and been working in the same company the past six years and have been seriously been thinking about packing it in and setting up my own workshop. It's a bit of a scary move as a wage is a wage but on the other hand being your own boss and doing things the way you want really appeals to me. Would love th hear from anyone that has taken the big step and set up your own place.
Cheers

Modedit: I've removed the repeat of this thread. Monk, please don't post copies of threads, no need, this one is just fine and if you follow the link posted takes you to a current thread that's attempting to answer the same question. Many thanks.

 

[worn thumbs]

Welcome to the forum!

This thread might be relevant to you let-s-be-honest-can-you-even-make-money-from-woodworking-t94720.html

Maybe a bit pessimistic,but it might give an alternative view.

 

[RobinBHM]

It can be very rewarding, it will however be harder than you can imagine.

Ive had two people leave and set up in their own in the last 6 years. One lasted a year as a site carpenter with a partner and is now back working for somebody. The other is a very good joiner now running a workshop with a business partner. He enjoys it but has found earning less than minimum wage and a 10 hour plus day not the glamorous lifestyle he imagined.

I expect you get frustrated in your current job, when you cant get because of no materials, waiting on information like drawings etc. Jobs suddenly get swapped or become very urgent. If you run your own shop you will see the side of this.

If you want to go for it: plan plan and plan some more. Find out what you dont know, because that is your potential downfall. You may be a brilliant joiner, but that must be a given. You also need to be a salesman, credit controller, buyer, accountant, site surveyor.

If that hasnt put you off then go for it, you only live once!

 

[Lons]

What Robin said.
you either have to be able and prepared to do everything or make enough to pay someone else to do it, maybe your other half can do some of the paperwork and you can pay her?

It's bloody hard work and with you 24/7 but rewarding if you get it right.

Bob

 

[Monk]

That is it exactly. I have watched my boss and see how he runs things, and to be honest it's the same mistakes over and over again and I've realised that it will never change. I suppose being an employee you are achieving someone else's dream. Don't get me wrong I see how stressful it is being a boss . I'm lucky that I have mates that are that can help out with the books and that because I know nothing about accounting.ive been building up machinery the past few months so gotta make a decision in the next few months. Cheers for the replys lads

 

[rafezetter]

I've not been a solo woodworker, but I have been self employed, twice, one of which as a company co-owner (both lasting several years so a modicum of success) so I do know of the trials it can bring to your life, having said that and just in case; have you tried to talk about the mistakes your boss keeps making in a constructive way - are there methods / alternatives that could be done that you could show will make a positive difference to his bottom line ? If you have and it's not changed and really getting you down, then before taking the leap to go solo it would be worth looking elsewhere for work to at least be a stopgap - there must be more places you could work at than the one you are currently in; this could well mean you do solo work on your days off, but at least it'll give you time to acclimitise a bit and to be honest the extra days working will be par for the course once you're solo anyway, so you'll be losing nothing but gaining far more experience of what it entails with the added safety zone of work as well.

I would be wary of keeping to your "next few months" decision deadline without having checked all of the advice in this and the other thread - especially about working out your market and what is repeatable day in day out, year in Year out

The all or nothing approach just makes it that much harder from day 1, and I can promise you not being able to pay your rent or bills the first month or the second, will make a day job with all the "boss problems" look like a day in the park.

I'm not trying to put you off, just being realistic.

 

[Ali]

What kind of products/services will you be offering? How different is it to the market you are currently working in as a joiner, or would you be setting up against your current employer?

I think having some experience working in the same market would be beneficial but need more info on what you hope to be producing?

Also what are your personal finances like? Do you have a mortgage/rent or other costs you need to make? You don't need to answer in public but you should have an idea of a figure you need to be earning to keep your head above water.

You don't need to go full time into self employment either, you could still work part time before you go all in financially.

 

[sitefive]

Why not keep your current job and setup everything /start doing the stuff you need in the spare time?
The first months will be just HARDCORE ,and you have to be everything at once, be ready to make way less than you earn now and without any sense of security at all until you establish yourself.
I'm $hitting bricks now because of the new year and decline of sales in every area for at least next month or 2 until it picks up again.
at least wait a few months till the good season starts to quit all at once ( few months before xmas)


To be honest if you like timber and got some spare £ I would start a timber yard , muuuuuuuuuuch much much much better profits over there. at least in my area all of the yards sell only total crap for eye watering prices, not really hard to beat the competition either because of they way most of the yards are run here.
If you want to get rich running the business - sell the tools/supplies to people who want to make it instead of trying to make it yourself

 

[AJB Temple]

I do not run a joinery shop, but I do have 50 staff in my business so I have a fair idea what the stresses of being your own boss are.

My advice is build up enough working capital such that you can afford not to make any income for at least three months, preferably six months, and have enough funds to finance your stocks of material for projects you are likely to do for at least two months as well. You must have a cash flow buffer really as it will take time to get business, time to make what you sell and time to get paid in full. Always get some cash up front for jobs if you can, but try not to rely on that. Minimise your own wages at first until your business is securely established.

You need you web site sorted in advance.
You need terms of business and retention of title clauses, payment terms etc organised in advance, along with an invoice template
You need a marketing plan and a proper business plan.
You need a bank overdraft organised if possible.
You need to get your personal outgoing minimised before you take the risk of going into business on your own.
You MUST be clear about where you are going to get your customers from and how you will sell to them.
Limit your liability - I would operate under a company (which can be formed for £10 yourself on line) and would make sure it carries public liability insurance. They often come with simple business bank account deals.
Open relevant trade supply accounts in advance.
Make sure that you handle the accounting properly (I recommend an on-line accounting tool) and learn to use the software before you start the business, then keep it up to date. Accounting is actually very easy and only become s a problem if you get behind.

And so on. There is a lot of planning to do and many small business neglect this and fail fairly quickly. So don't make that mistake.

Finally ….if your boss is struggling and making mistakes, one avenue is you could suggest taking over his business. Maybe he wants to get out? if there is some sort of established reputation, it might be a good way in. Or suggest you become partners rather than an employee (but again, limit your liability in either ran LLP or LTD structure).

Good luck with your venture.

 

[doctor Bob]

My advice is build up enough working capital such that you can afford not to make any income for at least three months, preferably six months, and have enough funds to finance your stocks of material for projects you are likely to do for at least two months as well. You must have a cash flow buffer really as it will take time to get business, time to make what you sell and time to get paid in full. Always get some cash up front for jobs if you can, but try not to rely on that. Minimise your own wages at first until your business is securely established.

You need you web site sorted in advance.
You need terms of business and retention of title clauses, payment terms etc organised in advance, along with an invoice template
You need a marketing plan and a proper business plan.
You need a bank overdraft organised if possible.
You need to get your personal outgoing minimised before you take the risk of going into business on your own.
You MUST be clear about where you are going to get your customers from and how you will sell to them.
Limit your liability - I would operate under a company (which can be formed for £10 yourself on line) and would make sure it carries public liability insurance. They often come with simple business bank account deals.
Open relevant trade supply accounts in advance.
Make sure that you handle the accounting properly (I recommend an on-line accounting tool) and learn to use the software before you start the business, then keep it up to date. Accounting is actually very easy and only become s a problem if you get behind.

And so on. There is a lot of planning to do and many small business neglect this and fail fairly quickly. So don't make that mistake.

If the above advice seems daunting then running a business is probably not for you, it is incredibly stressful at times. If however reading the above list makes you think "OK lets get on with this" then you have the right attitude.

The most important thing above to me is the bit about where are you going to get customers from, just because you are a good joiner will not get you customers, you need to be able to sell yourself and skills. Also you have to be confident that you really can design the items as well as make them. Nothing more frustrating than making something great that doesn't work.

 

[shed9]

AJB Temple's advice is pretty much on the nail. The only thing I would add is to reiterate his comment on cash flow; make sure this is in place and do not underestimate it. Part of my current day job is business management and cash flow is one of the biggest issues affecting all businesses from one man band start-ups to well established well known brand names. It can strangle a business at any time and given the banks' current and total disinterest in business these days this is all the more relevant.

I'm in a similar boat myself, currently do a non wood related job but slowly moving myself into the position of leaving and going on my own producing low quantity high quality products. I've got the work space, the required tooling and doing my research. I am however very fortunate as my employer is aware of this and is open to scale back my days as and when I wish to the point of eventual total extraction.

Have a word with your local authority and check if there is any assistance you can get or at least signposting to other assistance. Local and Government support grants will likely get a change over with the coming financial year-end.

Good luck.

 

[RobinBHM]

What sort of mistake are happening in the company you work for at the moment?
-most small businesses run reactively always doing what is most urgent not what is most important.

Unless you are in the driving seat you wont be able to appreciate the difficulty of standing back from the the day to day running and making long term plans.

If you have a flexible boss, maybe he would let you do some private work? -you will then start to understand dealing with customers and getting paid.

These days the issue of personal liability is not straight forward. The standard advise is to become a limited company. In theory, wise, but in practice banks and landlords will nearly always require personal guarantees. Identify your personal liability is likely to be and assess whether you are still happy with the risk.

Running a business is not for everybody, if you can handle the stress it can be hugely rewarding. You will never watch the clock again.....only to worry there isnt enough time left in the day!

 

[Emanuel]

I agree with AJB Temple. You;ll need to do all of the things that he mentioned, but before even thinking about those, you need to ask yourself if you can get enough customers to stay in business and to make a profit. Also, ask yourself if you can compete with the other firms that are offering the same service as you do.
If the answers to these questions are positive, then you can carry on and work at your business strategy.

 

[Lons]

You've got some great advice there and if it scares you a bit that's all well and good because it should. You need to know the downsides and responsibilities inside out before you ever seriously contemplate setting up a business which will be one of the most important decisions you will ever make.

If you haven't drawn up a business plan, researched the market in full, planned and fully costed the products you need (not necessarily want) to make, how and where you're going to sell them, who the competition is maybe on-line rivals as well, what your overheads will be, and exactly how little you can afford to live on while getting established then don't even try! Have you approached your bank, searched to see if set up grants available, costed insurances, sorted premises or checked if you will be allowed to work at home, contacted potential suppliers? Do you actually know how the tax system works and what you are allowed to offset?

Do you have a better half and what does she REALLY think about your plans, will you get the support you'll definitely need when your social life goes down the pan for a while?

The advice to stay employed and start the business in your spare time is very sound and what I did, if you find you yearn to go to the pub in your spare time then it's not for you, your drinking mates soon give up when you're not around and some of the help you think you can count on might not last.

I've painted a black picture deliberately as it's all too common for employees to think their boss is making a mess of things when they don't see or understand the whole picture, if you ask most employees will, I guarantee say they can do a better job than their boss!
Being good at producing products doesn't give you success, being able to sell them, supply / fit if a service business, at the right margins and get paid on time is vastly more important. Cash flow closes many more businesses than any other reason!

All that said, there is nothing more rewarding than working for yourself if you can handle it. I spent many years managing companies for other people earning much more than when self employed but wouldn't have gone back. Without the full support of my family despite no holidays, less money and hardly seeing me in the early years I wouldn't have made it work.

 

[doctor Bob]

If you have a flexible boss, maybe he would let you do some private work? -you will then start to understand dealing with customers and getting paid.

I have seen this happen many times, it always ends badly. Any boss which lets this happen must be mad. Can you imagine a BMW mechanic privately servicing BMW's at the weekend, or tescos letting it's staff sell their own produce at the door. I don't understand how people think it's acceptable in the woodworking industry.

My old boss let me do it, I built a kitchen and 3 bedrooms for me, lot's of private jobs, I paid him for materials but I know I didn't count off cuts (then anything under 4ft was considered an off cut) never bought any hardware, the sprayer sprayed it on the bosses time etc etc. in otherwords it cost him a fortune to build up my private skills and now I'm his main competitor.

I don't allow any thing in the workshop, there is no confusion then between what is allowed and what isn't.

 

[custard]

I'm a joiner...thinking about packing it in and setting up my own workshop.

Hello Monk, the word "joinery" covers a very big area, what exactly would you make if you ran your own workshop?

 

[Monk]

Ha, big area is right, sorry should have said. Kitchens would be the main bulk of work.

 

[custard]

I'm an independent furniture maker, I know a few furniture makers who couldn't earn enough as small designer/makers so moved into kitchen work. By and large they've generally done well enough, at any rate I don't see them moving back into furniture making!

Good luck Monk, I hope it works out well for you.

 

[RobinBHM]

To sell kitchens you will need fantastic imagery, you are selling a lifestyle not just a collection of solidly built cabinets. You need a few contracts to get started and have them professionally photographed, it needs creative input with good props.

Good luck if you decide to go for it.

Dont forget this forum is a great resource to bounce ideas and get feedback. There are quite a few professionals on here which have gone through starting up, but also there are members which do woodworking as a hobby but are very experienced in business and finance, as well as those with photography skills.

For SEO and website advise, have a look at UK business forum, they have a section just for this and quite a few forum members that do SEO for a living.

 

[Water-Mark]

To sell anything, whether you made it or not requires you to be a salesman first.
The better salesman usually wins regardless of product quality.

Also bear in mind being an employee these days includes sick and holiday pay as well as a pension.
Do not discount these as frivolous benefits.