Gluing Up Panels

[SteveF]

I know that when gluing up boards that you should alternate smiley faces to avoid cupping
the timber I have has the end grain running at approx 45 degrees (no smiles) to the faces
should I still flip the boards to make end grain arrows or run all the same way?

I notice that google has the answer to most woodworking projects but as soon as you want something special it fails to help

Steve

 

[custard]

When making up panels almost every furniture maker I know ranks harmonious grain appearance higher than alternating smiley faces.

Lay out your boards to deliver a beautiful panel, and let everything else fall where it may.

 

[woodbrains]

When making up panels almost every furniture maker I know ranks harmonious grain appearance higher than alternating smiley faces.

Lay out your boards to deliver a beautiful panel, and let everything else fall where it may.

Hello,

Absolutely! Most often this means all boards being heart side up. Alternating the end grain is a bit academic, really. If you were making a board, just a board and nothing else, then alternating makes sense. However, most boards are part of a piece of furniture, and will have the tendancy to cup restrained, for instance fixing it to aprons as in a table top. So, I actually prefer all the boards being orientated the same. In effect you would get the tendancy for the board to cup all in one arc, which is easier to hold flat than a series off small up and down scallops with alternating grain.

Mike.

 

[Mr T]

One of the problems for many hobby woodworkers is that work on a project may be sporadic. If they glue up a panel they may not actually work on it for a couple of weeks. If there is major cupping across the panel when they return to it it can be difficult to work with eg mitring or getting a consistent rebate. So I would recommend that you try to achieve happy and sad but if it is not possible go for what looks best.

Chris

 

[dynax]

i did a some panel glue ups last year for a dvd cabinet ( still not finished), anyway used happy and sad orientation and after a few weeks of being they left cupped like crazy, panels were made up of 2 x 150mm x 20 mm redwood of various lengths, have flattened a few pieces by planing, but i'm losing so much thickness i think i will have to redo them and put it down to experience,

 

[Sheffield Tony]

I have found that if you leave your glued up panel lying around for a while without care on how it is stored - e.g just sitting in a pile flat on the bench so the top panel is exposed on one side but not the other - it makes more difference than grain direction. Getting direct sun on one side of a board can have a dramatic effect. Happily it is usually reversible.

As just a hobbyist I made the mistake of leaving the finished parts of a bookcase sitting for quite a while before assembly. Long sliding dovetails become tricky to assemble when both components are cupped ! I had to clamp them between 2x2 battens to hold them flat enough to get them together. End result was ok though.

 

[SteveF]

another big thankyou
where else would you get professionals who make a living from their knowledge sharing their skills with us mere mortals?

Steve

 

[Obi Wan Kenobi]

another big thankyou
where else would you get professionals who make a living from their knowledge sharing their skills with us mere mortals?

Steve

I'll second that =D>

As a very mere mortal who is trying to soak up as much woodworking knowledge as I can, could someone please briefly explain "smiley", "sad", and "cupping" :?

OWK

 

[Mr T]

As a very mere mortal who is trying to soak up as much woodworking knowledge as I can, could someone please briefly explain "smiley", "sad", and "cupping" :?

OWK

I rather tweely think of boards being happy or sad depending on the orientation of the annual rings on the end of the board. If the rings curve down it's sad, upward curving is happy. When a board looses or gains moisture it can distort or "cup" across the width, a board losing moisture will cup or slightly curl up in the opposite direction to the annual rings and vice verse. Cupping can also occur when a board is thinned down due to the release of tensions within the board.

Chris

 

[Obi Wan Kenobi]

I rather tweely think of boards being happy or sad depending on the orientation of the annual rings on the end of the board. If the rings curve down it's sad, upward curving is happy. When a board looses or gains moisture it can distort or "cup" across the width, a board losing moisture will cup or slightly curl up in the opposite direction to the annual rings and vice verse. Cupping can also occur when a board is thinned down due to the release of tensions within the board.

Chris

Thanks for the explanation Chris, it now makes sense #-o

Obi Wan

 

[custard]

the timber I have has the end grain running at approx 45 degrees (no smiles) to the faces

Incidentally, I go to enormous lengths to ensure the annular rings on my leg components run at that exact same 45 degree angle, it's sometimes called "rift sawn". It's the only grain arrangement that means all the four faces of the leg will have a consistent and harmonious appearance. With any other grain arrangement you end up with table or chair legs that have two quarter sawn faces alternating with two flat sawn faces. That can look really nasty, even more so if they aren't set up so that the front faces of the four legs are all quarter or all flat sawn.

One of the biggest differences between high end and mass produced furniture is the amount of care and attention that's paid to laying out the components to get the most pleasing grain arrangement. It requires zero woodworking skill and zero specialist equipment, just an hour or so of care and thoughtful planning at the beginning of the project.

 

[Obi Wan Kenobi]

............just an hour or so of care and thoughtful planning at the beginning of the project.

Great advice, and something I am guilty of NOT doing

Obi Wan

 

[SteveF]

I am already struggling to harvest enough timbers so suspect I will not have the luxury of picking boards

 

[skipdiver]

i did a some panel glue ups last year for a dvd cabinet ( still not finished), anyway used happy and sad orientation and after a few weeks of being they left cupped like crazy, panels were made up of 2 x 150mm x 20 mm redwood of various lengths, have flattened a few pieces by planing, but i'm losing so much thickness i think i will have to redo them and put it down to experience,

Them pieces are too wide and thin really. Would have been better ripping them in half before gluing up. Then again, redwood usually does it own thing.

 

[GarF]

I think in future I will avoid alternating happy/sad. The last time I did this, with maple, I found myself dealing with alternating grain directions in adjacent boards. This was not only a total bear to plane smooth, but also catches the light differently so whichever way you position it the table top looks stripy! To add insult to injury it then cupped over the proceeding week by about 3/4" across 20", although it did recover after a couple of days in the house. The whole experience was so traumatic that the project has been stalled for over a year.