Glue with long open time.

[Rorschach]

I have an Ikea table and chair set, it's pretty sturdy at the moment but I am not sure how long that will last (and I have some robust friends). The simple screw and dowel contruction is easy to assemble but lacks strength, especially from racking.

My plan is to take them apart again, glue all the dowel joints and then clamp back together with clamps and the original screws. Once dry I will remove the screws, drill out the hole for new custom wooden dowels and glue them in before trimming them, maybe with some kind of interesting detail like square pyramid heads or something.

Having assembled these chairs before though I now they take a fair amount of fussing to get together as there are a lot of dowels that will need to be glued and then cleaned up. My usual woodglue in the shop is titebond 2 which I really like, but it does set up fast and it has almost caught me out in the fast. So any recommendations for something that has a longer open time? I don't mind if it takes a day or two to dry really, I am only going to do one chair at a time.

 

[MusicMan]

Cascamite or Aerolite (the fancy version) is very strong and has about 30 minutes open time.

 

[Steve Maskery]

Cascamite or Aerolite (the fancy version) is very strong and has about 30 minutes open time.

+1. It's my go-to for anything remotely complex.

 

[Cordy]

Cascamite glue is good; you can mix dye with the water - Custard told me

I use about 20% Morrell’s Light Fast Spirit Stain, the glue line doesn't stand out

 

[Cordy]

Culpa

 

[sunnybob]

Titebond 111.
It gives you up to 15 minutes wriggle room.
BUT.... it dries dark brown, so be very careful if the glue line will show.

 

[Beau]

Cascamite, Some PU's like Collano Semparoc 60 and Epoxy such as West System.

 

[Rorschach]

Cascamite seems to be the popular option. What's the shelf life like on it? PVA glues seem to store very well for a long time, I have had had trouble with PU glues in the past going hard quickly. What about cascamite, how does it store?

 

[Beau]

Cascamite seems to be the popular option. What's the shelf life like on it? PVA glues seem to store very well for a long time, I have had had trouble with PU glues in the past going hard quickly. What about cascamite, how does it store?

It's my understanding that PU's are sort of two pack in that the moisture in the wood or the air is the catalyst to make them set. Yes it tends to not last long in the bottle once open but can be improved greatly buy leaving the opened bottle upside down (cap on). When you squeeze out glue, air and the moisture in it then get into the bottle making some of it set. By leaving the bottle upside down the setting takes place at what would normally be the bottom of the bottle leaving the cap clear.

 

[Cordy]

Bought my Cascamite August 2017 - still good

When it arrived I decanted it into 5 separate plastic bags; just like Custard advised on another thread


Last week I finished a coffee table, used PVA 502

Cascamite as above; and E6000 to stick glass to wood

 

[Yojevol]

I use a moderate amount of Cascamite but it is expensive in the smaller quantities that would really suit me. I therefore opt for the 1.5Kg tub for £14.25 from https://www.restexpress.co.uk/acatalog/adhesives.html
If it's stored for long periods moisture can actually get through the plastic tub and cause it to go off. I avoid this by putting in a tub of silica gel to keep the moisture level to a minimum.
Brian

 

[MikeG.]

What do pros use?

This problem seems to have sneaked up on us. PVA in the old days seemed to be "open" as long as you needed it to be. It never crossed my mind to rush a glue-up, however complex, because of glue starting to set. Now, it's all rush, rush, rush. Loads of preparation beforehand to make sure all the clamps, spacers, blocks etc are in place and set, then get the glue on as fast as possible , then rush to pull everything together square and neatly.

Why can't we have a glue with half an hour open time, and fully cured in an hour?

 

[thetyreman]

I'd also recommend cascamite, used it for the first time recently, amazing stuff.

 

[ColeyS1]

Cascamite is reasonably cheap in larger quantities. £50 + vat for 25 kilos. I've often thought it would be worth people group buying some, but them comes the hassle of weighing and posting smaller quantities to each of the group. Not sure what the postage would be on 5 kilos.....? Would it still be a major saving ?

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[ColeyS1]

Why can't we have a glue with half an hour open time, and fully cured in an hour?

It would be handy to have one does that straight from the pot. You can get various hardeners for cascamite that speed up the curing process, then there's the wood welder. Resin or cascamite for complicated glue ups with at least overnight clamping seems to work for most of my jobs.


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[Beau]

What do pros use?


Why can't we have a glue with half an hour open time, and fully cured in an hour?

My favorite PU Balcotan was not far off that. had an open time of 30-45mins but touch dry in a few hours. Normally left it 6 hours to play it safe though. Cant get that brand any more and not found any other PU quite as good. The rapid version gave you 10 mins but was dry in an hour. Great thing with PU is you dont get that "grab" PVA has and it behaves more like a lubricant than a glue until it starts to set.

When I was training (late eighties) I dont remember PVA giving you that much open time. A glue up involved lots of prep including a bit of bribery in the form of some cakes to other students to give you hand in the sweaty moments.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Formic and phosphoric acid are the usual rapid hardners for Cascamite and Aerolite, I believe formic for Aerolite and phosphoric for Cascamite but it's years since I used either. I remember trying both acids with both glues - it didn't seem to make any difference, they both work. Not at all relevant to the OP of course.

 

[Rorschach]

Ok, so since I have never used cascamite before, how much should I order? It's easy for PVA to get an idea of what you need but since this is a glue I have to mix up, how far does a pot go?

I see the prices on ebay vary widely and it is much cheaper to buy in bulk. 125g was as little as £4 and as much as £10, order in bulk though and the price drops to less than £5 a kilo.

 

[Bodgers]

I bought a couple of bottles of Titebond extend for my workbench build.

It is PVA based so there isn't the issues you have to deal with on something like Cascamite.

Seems to give you 30 mins of wriggle room in summer weather. Probably more as we get into Winter.



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[ColeyS1]

Ok, so since I have never used cascamite before, how much should I order? It's easy for PVA to get an idea of what you need but since this is a glue I have to mix up, how far does a pot go?

I see the prices on ebay vary widely and it is much cheaper to buy in bulk. 125g was as little as £4 and as much as £10, order in bulk though and the price drops to less than £5 a kilo.

Biggest frustration I use to have with cascamite was mixing up enough glue. I always go way overboard now and end up mixing wayyyyy too much and throwing a lot out. Even though it has a long open time, having to mix more half way through gluing something up, really use to pile on the pressure.

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