Glue or not to glue
- Thread starter wmg
- Start date
Help Support UKworkshop.co.uk:
My advice is not to use glue, this allows movement as the wood swells or shrinks with the seasons, equally do not squeeze them tightly together. I was given this advice by my local woodworking workshop, when buying t&g to make external doors.
Ed Weber
Established Member
You can glue the panels to one another and essentially make one large floating panel if you want to. This will ensure consistent spacing of the T&G throughout the seasons. You do need to make sure you leave enough room in the frame for expansion/contraction of the panel.
niall Y
Established Member
Paint the tongues the final colour of the gate before assembly . I would refrain from gluing them to make a larger panel as this will require a larger gap at the edges to allow for expansion and contraction. It is often expedient not to use T&G for outside gates, but instead to use lap joints which don't trap water so badly. The thinner sections are also stronger - being half the thickness of the timber , not a third. .
Cabinetman
Established Member
Yes, I would suggest a pin top and bottom in the centre of each T&G board, but don’t squeeze them together first , leave a little room to expand. Also yes to pre-painting the tongues.
I wouldn’t put the planks in a groove as it’s all permanently fixed, a rebate with retaining strips pinned/screwed in will do it.
Ian
Ed Weber
Established Member
Making a solid panel will make the entire structure stiffer.
There are many ways to approach this.
Also, you need the same amount of room to accommodate movement of several small panels, as you do for 1 large panel, the panel is the same size no matter how you divide it up.
There are many ways to approach this.
Also, you need the same amount of room to accommodate movement of several small panels, as you do for 1 large panel, the panel is the same size no matter how you divide it up.
Blackswanwood
Still Learning
I wouldn’t glue them … there’s a forum full of experts here who seem to agree 
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads/glueing-tongue-and-groove.137060/
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads/glueing-tongue-and-groove.137060/
Ed Weber
Established Member
I've glued large panels of T&G without any issue what so ever.
If you really understand wood movement then you should understand that making a single wide panel from several pieces glued together is no different that a single solid panel, just stronger
This planter is just shy of 10 years old. The entire panel is glued together and floats in the frame.
If you really understand wood movement then you should understand that making a single wide panel from several pieces glued together is no different that a single solid panel, just stronger
This planter is just shy of 10 years old. The entire panel is glued together and floats in the frame.
Yojevol
Clocking on
You seem to understand the principles of wood movement but not the role of T&G boarding in dealing with it. The whole point of T&G is to allow individual board movement. To achieve this the boards must not be packed up tightly, let alone glued. The consequence of doing so is increased risk of board splitting.
The claim that the panel is stronger is superfluous. The strength of the structure is in the frame.
I suspect your success with your planter is due to your CA climate and your probable(?) waterproof lining.
Brian
Last edited:
Diver Fred
Established Member
I'm not sure which type of gates you are intending to make.
Will they be :-
Ledge & Brace - where the match boarding is affixed to the face of the Ledges and Brace - Don't glue the boards just nail to the ledges (in winter clamp together, in summer don't clamp).
Framed - Stiles (sides) only - don't glue.
Framed - Stiles and Rails; here glueing is optional - really should only be done where the Mortise & Tenon joints are through pinned (doweled).
Ed Weber
Established Member
Let me be perfectly clear the T&G boards are glued to each other NOT the frame. It's nothing more than a large floating panel, no different than a solid piece. There is no reason that it should fail.
Explain your concern with "board splitting" what board and why.
The purpose of T&G is to cover a large area, using small pieces of wood. The reason I say it's stiffer is because a solid panel is stiffer than several small panels that have room to flex in between each set. In an application such as a gate, a single solid can help keep the frame from twisting much more than a flexible panel made of several floating pieces.
Nothing I've said indicates that this is anything more than one large floating panel.
There is no benefit, in many cases, to having several boards expand and contract individually as opposed to all as one.
Outdoor T&G is subject to the elements and outside debris which always finds a way to infiltrate any opening. Gluing the T&G panels together so they act as one, reduces the amount of potential failure ares between each pair of panels.
While my climate is different than yours, Not all CA climate is the same, it's a large state.
Where I live it's considered a Mediterranean climate. I have daily temperature swings of 35 degrees F. Your assumption about the weather doesn't really apply. There is a large amount of wood movement throughout the year. (but only at the perimeter where there is ample room for expansion)
BTW, it was just a suggestion, you build panels anyway you like.
Yojevol
Clocking on
Thanks, I and the other contributors will, according to the long established principles of panel construction and floor laying using T&G boards.
peter-harrison
Established Member
Totes agree. It's asking a lot of timber that's outdoors to slide smoothly in a groove. OK for 100mm but a big ask for 1000mm. It's likely that rather than slide in the grooves, it will catch somewhere and the panel will split somewhere.
Ed Weber
Established Member
So when the piece in the center needs to expand, it has to push both sides 500mm?
Why would it catch? Why would it split? There is nothing holding it in position other than gravity and a little friction. BTW this is 1800mm and has moved freely for 10 years.
This is nothing more than a basic frame and panel construction, some of the members don't seem to understand that and think I've broken some long held woodworking rule.
In my (exaggerated) example, it's nothing more than a large FLOATING panel that just happens to be made of several pieces glued together. The same process used in a much narrower gate would pose no problems as many seem to think.
I did not break the frame and panel rules. Please don't call the wood police.
Ed Weber
Established Member
I had also made a matching planter with similar construction, is this okay?
I did glue those three together, did I break a rule? please let me know, I done want to get fined.
All kidding aside, it's nothing special or out of the norm, just a floating panel,
I did glue those three together, did I break a rule? please let me know, I done want to get fined.
All kidding aside, it's nothing special or out of the norm, just a floating panel,
niall Y
Established Member
In woodwork, as in many things, you can do whatever you like - as long as it works. If it works, then " Dim Problem.", as they say in these parts.
As I mentioned earlier I tend to avoid T&G for outside gates, especially in this part of the world, as the joints tend to swell causing the sides of the groove to curl away from the tongue, which I feel makes the boarding look unsightly - a feature that is more pronounced with thinner boards. Better as I said to use lapped joints as these don't have to physically touch each other. And any moisture can be free to drain away.
This was a method I first saw used when I replaced some Victorian era gates, in a walled garden many years ago, And I have followed this method myself. ever since. For outside work in general, Joiners never used to bother with glue at all preferring mechanical methods such as draw boring , nailing or screwing instead. Though they would often paint the joints to protect them.
To this day I still prefer to just joint and screw my frames together, as the larger ones are a lot easier to transport if you have the option of breaking them down to their component parts.
As I mentioned earlier I tend to avoid T&G for outside gates, especially in this part of the world, as the joints tend to swell causing the sides of the groove to curl away from the tongue, which I feel makes the boarding look unsightly - a feature that is more pronounced with thinner boards. Better as I said to use lapped joints as these don't have to physically touch each other. And any moisture can be free to drain away.
This was a method I first saw used when I replaced some Victorian era gates, in a walled garden many years ago, And I have followed this method myself. ever since. For outside work in general, Joiners never used to bother with glue at all preferring mechanical methods such as draw boring , nailing or screwing instead. Though they would often paint the joints to protect them.
To this day I still prefer to just joint and screw my frames together, as the larger ones are a lot easier to transport if you have the option of breaking them down to their component parts.
Blackswanwood
Still Learning
Of course it’s okay. If it works for you crack on.
I’m sticking with not gluing though
There has been great advice and information on here, it’s all very welcome. I am almost finished assembling the gates, I probably should have asked the question before I started and I may have done things differently. I have kept it simple, just a frame with a rebate on the inside to accommodate the t&g boards. They will most likely be fitted not glued.
I never thought there was so much work in building a gate.
I never thought there was so much work in building a gate.
