Getting an apprenticeship at 26 years old

[Rationalis]

Good day, gentlemen.

This year I have started college, level 1 of Carpentry & Joinery and next year I would like to start doing an apprenticeship while also going to college 1 day per week for my level 2 Site Carpentry. However, I am concerned about getting an apprenticeship at my age, or on getting an apprenticeship in general.

How hard is it to get an apprenticeship nowadays?

I have read that government funds apprenticeses only up to 24 year old, meaning that the money that the company would spend on me would not be reimbursed. This raises a question: wouldn't this mean that Carpentry companies would disqualify me from being hired as an apprenticeship because of my age as thei might want to avoid spending their own time and money on training an over 24 year old, or my age might work FOR me as I might be deemed more mature and more hardened by hard work (while studying I am also working full time a night warehousing job)?

I would really appreciate the replies. Thank you.


P. S., I am sorry if this is in the wrong place...

 

[RobinBHM]

It is tricky, you are right you wont get any government funding so the course will need to be paid for, by either an employer or by yourself.

This sounds like a career change, in which case you need to think what direction you want your new career to go.

Are you wanting to be a site carpenter or workshop based joiner?

If site, then there are various sectors, 1st fix including roofing, 2nd fix, commercial, domestic, kitchens, bathrooms etc etc.

Most site carpenters are likely to be self employed, working for main contractors, builders, direct with clients or a mixture of all.

These days lots carpenters also become building contractors running their owns jobs.

Do you know which route you want to take?

If you want a site career, I would suggest getting a labouring job with a good building contractor and equip yourself with a good tool kit. If you show promise you will soon get to do some carpentry work.

 

[Bm101]

Hi,
I wouldn't pretend to give advice about your career from a work point of view. I'd feel like I was insulting all the professionals on here and I wouldn't have a clue.
What I would say if you don't mind, is that 26 is not half as old as you think it is right now. I'm guessing your going to go through some lean times ahead but if you have the nouse, the talent and ability to work both hard and clever, if this is something you want to do, do it. Because it just gets harder and harder to change your career to something you want to do the longer you leave it.

Don't know your personal situation of course, but generally, in my experience at least, it will never get any easier.
Kids, cars, mortgages, bank loans, parents getting older.... you name it. It all adds up to immobilty in the end unless you are very brave.
I've worked a few jobs in my time. Rope access worker (window cleaning mostly), for the last 15 years. I'm pretty good at it. Would I do it again, knowing what I know now? No, I'd be a Solicitor lol. I don't have many regrets but like Frank Sinatra, I have a few. I enjoy my job mostly. It's hard going but it has it's benefits. But the perspectives of those benefits change as you get a bit older. As Robin ( a man to listen carefully to from every post of his I've ever read on here) has stated you need to decide where you want to be, but not just now though, in ten/twenty years time in my book. Even if you don't know right now it bears thinking about. Blink of an eye mate. 10 years. Gone. (Don't let me get you down lol, it's a good ride) But at the end of that 20 years do you want to be earning someone else money or having other blokes earn you money?
Look at how you can develop that would be my 'advice' if you don't mind me giving it.
Good luck. I hope you find what you're looking for. Only you can find it.

Regards
Chris.
(A man with very cold hands for the next 4 months and wishing he'd known about making stuff for a living 20 years ago )

 

[sunnybob]

I cant see many apprentice places being in Carpentry now. Most big firms are automated, most small firms cant afford to pay a living wage for someone who isnt much good for the first couple of years.

I'm with Robin, get yourself onto a building site and make yourself useful to everybody. make conversation with any tradesman you meet. job opportunities come up at the most unexpected moments.

25 years ago I had been made redundant 4 times in two years, a friend got me a temporary job washing dishes in an old folks home. Within a month I was helping the caretaker mow the lawns, decorate the rooms, refit the kitchen, and that led on through reading a catering magazine of the chefs, to a service engineers job in catering that i stayed with for almost 20 years untill retiring.

But you have a hard task ahead. Be outgoing, ask questions, and be helpful. That alone will seperate you from the majority of 26 year olds. good luck.

 

[Stanleymonkey]

Can I ask what the rough cost is?

 

[tomatwark]

Have a look at CITB

http://www.citb.co.uk/careers-in-construction/

https://www.goconstruct.org/how-to-get- ... e-studies/

There are apprenticeships around, I currently have 4 apprentices and one semi skilled guy in his 30's who we are about to put through a SVQ in Furniture Making.

There is funding available for employers for providing training.

I had to go down this route due to the massive shortage of trades in this country.

Ring around companies and see what is out there, these positions will not be generally advertised and it is a case of getting on your bike and looking.

 

[Monkey Mark]

I haven't read all the replies as i don't have time. However i work within education so thought I'd answer.
You may find it hard to get funding for yourself but people often overlooked the funding available to your EMPLOYER for having you as an apprentice. The figures may vary from area to area and trade to trade but often the money they can claim can come close to what an apprentices yearly wage would be, effectively making you free/cheap labour.

Something for you to research and keep in mind when speaking to prospective enoloyers

 

[Mr_P]

Ring around companies and see what is out there, these positions will not be generally advertised and it is a case of getting on your bike and looking.

Hand written letter (if your have good penmanship) with a printed CV and the icing on the cake a few pictures of things you have made.

Good Luck,
Carl

 

[YorkshireMartin]

It's much easier than at 36, which is when I pulled my finger out and tried to get into this stuff.

 

[RobinBHM]

I looked into it last year, from memory the cost was about £4k, I dont recall any funding available.

Whilst I fully believe in training, I dont have much faith in the current NQQs for carpentry and joinery. My feeling is that there is a need for being more relavent to modern methods.

I interviewed somebody who had just completed a course. He brought in a gothic arched sash with georgian glazing bars. Quite an advanced piece but made mostly with a router and had lots of markjng out and construction flaws. The timber was rubbish due to lack of funding. The apprentice wasnt allowed to use a planer thicknesser due to HSE. The college had no large machinery, no tenoner.

 

[Rationalis]

RobinBHM,

I am thinking of becoming a Site Carpenter, but I am not 100% sure. As of right now I want to learn more about both sides of the trade and eventually decide what I prefer. That being said, I am leaning towards Carpentry, because Joinery tends to require more precision.

Do you think that working as a labourer would be more beneficial rather than going to college? Don't colleges help to find apprenticeships later?


Bm101,

Yea, I agree with you. Making drastic life decisions become harder and harder the older you get. The reason I quoted my age is because of governmental funding potential: without it, companies might not even care or think twice about hiring me.

Also, it is good that you mentioned getting older: I have read that carpenters (just like most other trades) tend to become less able to finish the tasks the older they get. This is the reason I am such a big proponent of saving a lot and retiring early. Although it is easier said than done, admitedly.

sunnybob,

What do you mean by saying that most big firms are automated? I believed that carpentry is one of the trades that hardly can be automated. Unless you talk about IKEA-esque DIY low quality rubbish (but I am not concerned about this as I believe that, ultimately, quality trumps cheapness), I find it difficult to understand what exactly you mean by saying "automated". How can Carpentry be automated?



I really appreciate your answers, mates!

 

[tomatwark]

There are courses and courses.

We have 2 apprentices on a carpentry and joinery course at the local college, one of them will become come our fitter in time, when our current fitter retires, the other has recently stepped up into the machinists job, and although he has had training in the basics at college and also in house, we are going to put him through a full machinists qualification.

For this and also for the furniture qualifications we use an external training company who come to us, the disadvantage is it can interrupt production a bit at times, but the big advantage from our point of view is a lot of the training is carried out on live jobs we are working on, and can be tailored to us.

The local college runs a good course though, but it does not meet all our training needs.

I am not a big fan of full time courses, as from experience I have found that the people who have done them, come out with a piece of paper, not having been shown the little short cuts and tricks of the trade, they would have picked up from the other tradesmen if they had trained on the job and then have to be trained to do the job.

 

[RobinBHM]

There are courses and courses.

We have 2 apprentices on a carpentry and joinery course at the local college, one of them will become come our fitter in time, when our current fitter retires, the other has recently stepped up into the machinists job, and although he has had training in the basics at college and also in house, we are going to put him through a full machinists qualification.

For this and also for the furniture qualifications we use an external training company who come to us, the disadvantage is it can interrupt production a bit at times, but the big advantage from our point of view is a lot of the training is carried out on live jobs we are working on, and can be tailored to us.

The local college runs a good course though, but it does not meet all our training needs.

I am not a big fan of full time courses, as from experience I have found that the people who have done them, come out with a piece of paper, not having been shown the little short cuts and tricks of the trade, they would have picked up from the other tradesmen if they had trained on the job and then have to be trained to do the job.

Rationalis -I agree very much with the above. The issue with full time NVQ college courses is whilst they teach the basic principles of carpentry and methods, Ive found they fall very short of providing any experience of actual vocational skills. Ive had apprentices having done 2 years of college that cant use a cordless drill / impact for screwing together -a most fundamental basic skill that is required in all woodwork these days, that whilst seemingly an obvious task , speed, accuracy and methodical approach only come with experience.

You are far more likely to get a job with some experience of working on site amongst other trades than you are with a qualification. Not only that but if you work on site, you will have opportunity to network with trades and stand a better chance of getting a job. You will also learn the good and bad building contractors in your area. I dont know about where you live but here in Sussex good reliable hard working workers are hard to find and for somebody with drive it would not take long to find work.

If it was me, I would strongly recommend getting a job with a building contractor and learning as a labourer / carpenters mate. If you have a professional cordless set so much the better.

If you arent sure which way to go, I would suggest there is far more scope in the sector on site and possibly better pay. If you want to be self employed or run your own business, there is lots of scope on site.

 

[AJB Temple]

There is a lot to be said for getting a qualification, not least because it shows commitment. If you can make a business case to prospective employers, such that they can access the grant schemes for apprentices and in effect make you cheap labour, then this will help. I would echo the advice of tomatwark - try to find an employer who is committed to high quality work and training.

Open your eyes to the direction of travel. You question automation and this may be unwise. I have recently become friendly with a guy who runs a well known oak framing business - they make everything from oak framed large houses, down to garages. Almost all of the carpentry is done by cnc machines - as he says you put a tree in at one end and a frame kit comes out at the other, with all joints formed at a precision beyond most site carpenters. Most of the labour requirement is assembly.

You may be wise to embrace technology as the future is already here.

 

[skipdiver]

I echo what Robin says in that you don't really learn anything until you get on site, not least how to look after yourself because if you don't know what you are doing, some will just discount you as no use. The building site can be a brutal place but there are also some nice knowledgeable people who will help you if you are keen to learn.

One of the best joiner/builders i know has no qualifications at all. He started off as a window fitter for my mates UPVC company. Me and my mate who is a bricky/plasterer used to do all the building work for said company; chop outs, alterations and conservatory bases. Depending on how busy we or they were, sometimes we'd do the full job and fit the UPVC as well as the building work but sometimes they would send a fitter to assist us and do that part of the job.

One day they sent the new lad Jamie and he was constantly asking questions and offering to help with the building side of it. If i had new skirtings to fit or some flooring to make good, he was on my shoulder watching and asking all the time. He learned fast and we ended up requesting him if we had a fitter along with us. Long story short, a couple of years later, he struck out on his own with another window fitter, also unqualified, as his sidekick. They asked me if i would be willing to give knowledge or sometimes hands on guidance if hey got stuck and i agreed. The phone calls from them were almost daily at first and one memorable distress call was when they did their first masons mitre on a worktop with a crappy template and router bits they had bought from Ebay. It was a disaster and we had to go and get mine to finish the job. That cost them a worktop and the money for the useless stuff they had bought including the cheapo B&Q router. Jamie learned a lesson that day and never bought cheap again. He now has all Festool stuff and is a very good "tradesman". He doesn't ring me much now but last time i saw him, he was setting up a workshop and popped round for a cuppa and a chat. I've no doubt he will make a go of it and he is very busy.

As pointed out earlier in the thread, there is a lack of good tradesmen around and if you can do the job competently, you should have no trouble finding work. So i would also recommend getting yourself on site somewhere and show you are keen to learn without being too pushy. You are either cut out for this type of work or you're not and the building site will let you know.