german planes

[Jacob]

Or if it's a single iron scrub someone on ebay has been selling new blades (old stock "Herring") for a long time. he must have a big box of them. 30 or 32 mm wide can't remember which.

 

[dm65]

Thanks Jacob - I don't suppose you have a link ? (at work so SHOULDN'T be searching through ebay)

 

[Cheshirechappie]

The Ebay seller Jacob is referring to is G and M Tools; they have an Ebay presence as 'The Plane Iron Shop' as well as their main business in secondhand machinery and general tools. Here's the link - http://www.gandmtools.co.uk/product-cat ... ane-irons/

Other UK sources for plane irons would be the secondhand tool dealers - there's a good list on Alf's website 'The Cornish Workshop'. As AndyT mentioned earlier, Bristol Design have a fairly extensive stock, including some pretty esoteric sizes.

For the real thing, it may be best to try one of the big German tool dealers, Dieter Schmidt or Dictum.

 

[dm65]

Brilliant - thanks CC

 

[JohnPW]

Update on the plane I posted earlier, it's stamped "H. Himstedt, Hamburg".

.
From bottom of page at: http://www.holzwerken.de/museum/herstel ... burg.phtml

English translation:

Johann Heinrich Christian Himstedt
Born 30/08/1851 in Bruchmacktersen.
Proved in 1882 as a toolmaker, since 1887 as the "Liidecke successor".
From 1900 to 1914 "Tool factory spec. Tools f Carpenter & Carpenter, only own manufacture."
Died on 04/25/1914.
His widow continued the business until 1918 on, in the last year just as a warehouse.
Then at the same address firmierte a tool factory C. Steger.

 

[Bedrock]

+1 for G and M Tools. I bought several unused Herring blades from them including a couple of apparently scrub plane blades, already ground to U shaped profile. At work at moment, but IIRC one is about 1" and the other c.1 1/2" for scrub planes yet to be made. So far steel seems good quality. Both are not "cut", if I understand the term, in that they are plain, without any holes or slots.
I have no idea of the vintage, but these suggest that some English plane maker was making scrub planes?

Mike

 

[bugbear]

+1 for G and M Tools. I bought several unused Herring blades from them including a couple of apparently scrub plane blades, already ground to U shaped profile. At work at moment, but IIRC one is about 1" and the other c.1 1/2" for scrub planes yet to be made. So far steel seems good quality. Both are not "cut", if I understand the term, in that they are plain, without any holes or slots.
I have no idea of the vintage, but these suggest that some English plane maker was making scrub planes?

As I posted earlier, Melhuish listed them. IIRC Preston 1909 lists them too.

BugBear

 

[MIGNAL]

The Herring blade that I bought from G and M was the hardest steel I've come across! I was worried because my stones didn't seem to be having much effect. It was more like trying to sharpen HSS. Even my medium grit waterstone was really struggling. That's when I put it to the hand crank grinder and removed a couple of mm's. Thankfully it then settled down to acting more like high Carbon tool steel.

 

[bugbear]

The Herring blade that I bought from G and M was the hardest steel I've come across! I was worried because my stones didn't seem to be having much effect. It was more like trying to sharpen HSS. Even my medium grit waterstone was really struggling. That's when I put it to the hand crank grinder and removed a couple of mm's. Thankfully it then settled down to acting more like high Carbon tool steel.

Sounds like it was heat treated after the bevel was ground/cut into place.

BugBear

 

[Racers]

Usually the first part of the blade is soft caused by the carbon being lost from the surface, you usually get harder steel and you grind back.
Sounds like a heat treating problem, but the edge is thinner and easier to heat so it shouldn't happen.

Pete

 

[bugbear]

Usually the first part of the blade is soft caused by the carbon being lost from the surface, you usually get harder steel and you grind back.
Sounds like a heat treating problem, but the edge is thinner and easier to heat so it shouldn't happen.

Pete

IIRC Odate speaks of a new blade needing to be "tamed" because the edge is too hard.

BugBear

 

[MIGNAL]

I've certainly read of (and experienced) both 'states'. That Herring blade is the only one that I have come across where the tip has been noticeably harder. The opposite, soft and then hard, I've come across on at least two occasions.
Here I'm referring to new blades or new old stock, as in that Herring. I can't think that a few decades of storage would affect the hardness in any way, so I can only assume it was something in the original manufacture. At a guess the Herring looked to be relatively recent - maybe '60's or perhaps '50's?

 

[Racers]

Usually the first part of the blade is soft caused by the carbon being lost from the surface, you usually get harder steel and you grind back.
Sounds like a heat treating problem, but the edge is thinner and easier to heat so it shouldn't happen.

Pete

IIRC Odate speaks of a new blade needing to be "tamed" because the edge is too hard.

BugBear

Didn't he have to leave one on a metal roof, or was advised to?

Pete

 

[bugbear]

Usually the first part of the blade is soft caused by the carbon being lost from the surface, you usually get harder steel and you grind back.
Sounds like a heat treating problem, but the edge is thinner and easier to heat so it shouldn't happen.

Pete

IIRC Odate speaks of a new blade needing to be "tamed" because the edge is too hard.

BugBear

Didn't he have to leave one on a metal roof, or was advised to?

Pete

The passage I'm recalling, he just ground some blade away. I had the book from a library, so I can't check.

BugBear

 

[Racers]

I will check tonight, if I get chance.

Pete

 

[Racers]

Toshio Odate book page 156 A story of a blade that was to hard and chipped during use the advise was to "keep the blade on a hot tin roof"
Or sharpening fast with lots of pressure to heat up the blade, which he (Odate) says happens even on waterstones.

Pete

 

[Trafalgar]

Well, if either of those two strategies is something somebody thinks will actually work then "Old Sheffield" is to be excused for the occasional clunker piece of steel it produced.

Both of these 'strategies' by Odate amount to no more than superstition or old wives' tales at the very best. The only thing happening on the waterstone (waterstone!) is that he might be removing metal past the problem area. There most certainly is not enough heat being generated to affect the properties of tool steel.

Did he make these statements in his dotage or years ago? One hopes the former.

 

[bugbear]

Well, if either of those two strategies is something somebody thinks will actually work then "Old Sheffield" is to be excused for the occasional clunker piece of steel it produced.

I don't think "Old Sheffield" was very influenced for better or worse by a book published by a Japanese Craftsman in 1984. :lol:

BugBear

 

[Trafalgar]

One hopes not....

 

[Racers]

There most certainly is not enough heat being generated to affect the properties of tool steel.

Are you sure, even at a microscopic level? ever seen sparks from a powered waterstone?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0BtDfJCNL8

Pete