Garage workshop conversion help

[Bkn]

Hi

I've been working on emptying my garage to convert it into a workshop but it's more complicated than I first thought. I'd appreciate any help/tips anyone can give me

The garage is 2.3m * 5m (7.5ft * 16ft) and has an up and over door with no other access.

It has had a damp problem forever, the worst of which can be seen here:

Before I can really do anything I need to get this fixed, re-plastered and probably paint both the floor and walls to seal them. Does anyone have any idea about the best way to fix this problem?

As for the door - how difficult (and what is the likely cost) of putting together a couple of simple side hinged doors?

Again, really appreciate any help - thanks

-Tom

 

[Digit]

What is the source of the damp, do you know?
As regards the doors, first you need to frame the opening, including the base. Difficult? Not really. Cost? Depends on the type of doors and material.
If you can give us more info we may be able to help.

Roy.

 

[GazPal]

There seems to be a lack of damp proof membrane between the garage wall and the brickwork on what looks like a boundary wall - hence the internal damp problem (As moisture percolates through) and additional damage to the capping course of brickwork on the boundary wall and it's render (Caused by moisture and subsequent freezing during the winter months).

In essence, it appears that the damp problem's source is external and water is breaching the wall at the head of the garage door jamb and spreading downward.

You'll need to create a barrier against damp by adding some flashingand damp proof membrane (DPM) to the outer garage wall (Also tucked beneath the capping brickwork) and repair the external brickwork and render before carrying out repair work inside.

I hope this helps.

 

[srp]

The outside wall needs a vertical damp course where it joins the brickwork adjacent to the garage door frame. It also needs some lead flashing to prevent water soaking into the join where the coping meets the wall - the lead should be taken up the wall about 150mm, underneath the render, and be dressed out to extend horizontally at least 150mm along the coping.

The cement render outside is obviously cracked (probably frost damage) so that needs to come off. The half-round coping needs pointing, or probably removing and re-bedding (It may be the top one or two courses of brickwork are also loose and need the same treatment as well). The damage to the wall inside the garage is largely cosmetic - if you cure the damp coming in you could leave this if you don't mind it looking unsightly (it will still show signs of damp and efflorescence even after it has dried out completely).

The vertical dpc is a tricky one - you could angle grind through the brickwork and slide a piece of plastic dpc into the gap, followed by grouting or pointing with one of those 'jumbo mastic gun' things http://www.axminster.co.uk/pointing-and ... prod19487/
But that would reduce the strength of the wall as it won't be tied in to the garage brickwork anymore. Another option might be to take out a vertical section of brickwork and rebuild it in dense engineering bricks from the ground up, with a 3+1 mortar mix plus waterproofing admixture. More work but you'd keep the brickwork bond and hence retain the strength of the structure as a whole.

Any attempt to cure this by applying bitumen or waterproofing solutions to the surface of the wall will be a waste of time and money - the fault is a lack of a waterproof barrier within the brickwork, so you've got to put one in.

 

[Lons]

The outside wall needs a vertical damp course where it joins the brickwork adjacent to the garage door frame. It also needs some lead flashing to prevent water soaking into the join where the coping meets the wall - the lead should be taken up the wall about 150mm, underneath the render, and be dressed out to extend horizontally at least 150mm along the coping.

The cement render outside is obviously cracked (probably frost damage) so that needs to come off. The half-round coping needs pointing, or probably removing and re-bedding (It may be the top one or two courses of brickwork are also loose and need the same treatment as well). The damage to the wall inside the garage is largely cosmetic - if you cure the damp coming in you could leave this if you don't mind it looking unsightly (it will still show signs of damp and efflorescence even after it has dried out completely).

The vertical dpc is a tricky one - you could angle grind through the brickwork and slide a piece of plastic dpc into the gap, followed by grouting or pointing with one of those 'jumbo mastic gun' things http://www.axminster.co.uk/pointing-and ... prod19487/
But that would reduce the strength of the wall as it won't be tied in to the garage brickwork anymore. Another option might be to take out a vertical section of brickwork and rebuild it in dense engineering bricks from the ground up, with a 3+1 mortar mix plus waterproofing admixture. More work but you'd keep the brickwork bond and hence retain the strength of the structure as a whole.

Any attempt to cure this by applying bitumen or waterproofing solutions to the surface of the wall will be a waste of time and money - the fault is a lack of a waterproof barrier within the brickwork, so you've got to put one in.

What he said..............

I'm a builder. if it was mine, I'd remove the part of the wall which abuts the garage and rebuild it properly.

Sounds drastic but usually quicker and probably cheaper in the long run as trying to patch it up, rarely works in my experience and if you don't sort out the source of the damp, you'll never cure it.

Bob

 

[GazPal]

I'm a builder. if it was mine, I'd remove the part of the wall which abuts the garage and rebuild it properly.

Sounds drastic but usually quicker and probably cheaper in the long run as trying to patch it up, rarely works in my experience and if you don't sort out the source of the damp, you'll never cure it.

Bob

Fair comment, as well as realistic from a practical trade perspective. :wink:

------------------

Although this dampness issue appears to be something very probably shared with an adjacent neighbour i.e. a continuous boundary wall over which extensions have been partially built, it's often best to try avoiding arbitrary advice without a fuller knowledge of the given property/structure.

External render and capping brickwork are both older forms of dampness barrier, but in this instance both are broken. Repair both and the dampness problem could very well be cured without major surgery, but end results can't be guaranteed. I'd tend to base my decision on whether or not the problem existed prior to the failure of both capping course and render.

When breaking the junction between the external boundary wall and garage, factors such as lintel bearing and whether or not an internal pillar will prove necessary need to be considered if both walls are to be isolated from one another. Ideally, have someone (A qualified surveyor or competent builder) survey, plan for and cost the potential work involved before moving ahead.

Regardless, the cause of the damp is the continuous boundary wall which needs to be isolated from the garage.

 

[chipchaser]

Hi Tom,

I agree with Lons and and Gazpal, best to do it properly once and be done with but the problem first needs to be undestood and treated appropriately, something that is difficult to do from a photo.

One point with party walls, trouble sometimes follows when for one reason or another works don't turn out as the neighbour expected. The Party Wall Act 1996 may apply. There is a useful booklet here:

http://www.communities.gov.uk/documents ... 133214.pdf

Graham

 

[Bkn]

Thanks for all the info everyone

 

[ondablade]

Structural issues aside Bkn, it's probably advisable anyway to take care that you don't run into noise/nusiance/other issues with any neighbour(s) too - especially if you are thinking of going commercial in any way. (presuming from the party wall discussion that you have a neighbour)

I'm not familiar with the UK scenario, but bye laws, building regs, planning and all sorts of stuff could complicate the mix.

Quite how to approach it is depends on all sorts of factors, but it can go badly wrong if you have an awkward neighbour and just plough ahead hoping it'll be OK.

I've seen it happen that e.g. building works are completed which did not have the clear agreement of the neighbour, who then objected after completion. By then there's no going back, and it can easily (as this one did) end up in court - with the primary mode of attack being claims of non compliance with planning/regulations, and for damages.

Setting up a home workshop is not at all the same thing, but it'd be a pity to spend a lot of time and money only to be forced to strip it out again.

You will know best, but there's a lot to be said for dealing with stuff like this up front. Even if it's OK at first, noise and the like over time can cause a lot of genuine upset, and it's often best to get a communications channel opened..

 

[Digit]

A question for the builders. Will injected DPCs work on vertical surfaces?

Roy.

 

[srp]

A question for the builders. Will injected DPCs work on vertical surfaces?

Yes and no. A chemical dpc relies on the existing brickwork being sound - no cracked bricks, good quality mortar fill and no voids. Otherwise the injected fluid will tend to run into the voids rather than penetrate the bricks and mortar. Also it is impossible to tell if an injected dpc is going to be effective, you have to wait and see, maybe for a year or so. These are the reasons for a mechanical dpc being the best solution wherever possible.

By the way, is it a party wall? Who is responsible for its' maintenance? And, if it is, what is on the other side? Is there another garage, maybe with the same damp problem? And does it belong to you, or a neighbour? If the latter, then it makes sense for you to sort this out in collaboration. It doesn't change the detail of my proposed solution, but it does affect how you go about it.

 

[Bkn]

It is a party wall and there's another garage (full of junk and is never used apparently) at the other side of it. I'll check with my neighbour (they're nice neighbours) and ask if I can have a look and see if they have the same issue and discuss sorting it. I don't really see it being a priority for them though so it might just be down to me.

I'd thought about sound issues and I really don't want to cause a problem for my neighbours. It'd be used predominantly in the day when nobody is around + I'll probably do a sound test by having some machinery running and seeing how much you can hear it from in their house. If it's a big issue I can see about trying to soundproof as much as possible.

Say I check their garage and there's no damp problem like in mine. I'm presuming that'd change the diagnosis of the problem + the length I need to go to to fix it?

[edit] - I went and checked the other side of the wall and there's no damp problem - wall is bone dry. Am I right in thinking that this probably means there's a crack in between the brickwork somewhere and the water is going in through that single point, rather than a general permeation of water through the wall?

 

[OLD]

You need a rainy day to find where the water is getting in.
In the picture there seems to be something growing out of the top of the wall that has been cut off if so this will need removing and making good.

 

[Lons]

I'm a builder. if it was mine, I'd remove the part of the wall which abuts the garage and rebuild it properly.

Sounds drastic but usually quicker and probably cheaper in the long run as trying to patch it up, rarely works in my experience and if you don't sort out the source of the damp, you'll never cure it.

Bob

Fair comment, as well as realistic from a practical trade perspective. :wink:

------------------

Although this dampness issue appears to be something very probably shared with an adjacent neighbour i.e. a continuous boundary wall over which extensions have been partially built, it's often best to try avoiding arbitrary advice without a fuller knowledge of the given property/structure.

External render and capping brickwork are both older forms of dampness barrier, but in this instance both are broken. Repair both and the dampness problem could very well be cured without major surgery, but end results can't be guaranteed. I'd tend to base my decision on whether or not the problem existed prior to the failure of both capping course and render.

When breaking the junction between the external boundary wall and garage, factors such as lintel bearing and whether or not an internal pillar will prove necessary need to be considered if both walls are to be isolated from one another. Ideally, have someone (A qualified surveyor or competent builder) survey, plan for and cost the potential work involved before moving ahead.

Regardless, the cause of the damp is the continuous boundary wall which needs to be isolated from the garage.

Gazpal is spot on with his comments and your best course of action would be to get in a couple of local builders to get an analysis of the problem.

Impossible to diagnose correctly from a photograph but from what can be seen implies that the wall, capping and render all are suspect with cracks, loose mortar and previous patching.

Additionally it isn't good practice to build a structure as part of a garden wall and it likely has no DPC or DPM at ground level (an assumption). Not ideal conditions for a workshop housing metal tools and machinery :!:

If you need to soundproof, you can probably address internal damp issues at the same time but still need to cure the source of the ingress.

I have had some experience of the party wall issue albeit a number of years ago and from memory, you are permitted to make any necessary repairs to protect your property and allowed access to the wall from your neighbours' property to carry out the work if necessary as long as you follow the rules regarding notifications, duty of care etc.

Best as always to talk to your neighbours first and avoid conflict.
Bob

 

[srp]

I went and checked the other side of the wall and there's no damp problem - wall is bone dry. Am I right in thinking that this probably means there's a crack in between the brickwork somewhere and the water is going in through that single point, rather than a general permeation of water through the wall?

I'm assuming the garden wall is normal 9" brickwork. It's not uncommon to see worse symptoms on one side, as water will take the easiest route. I don't think it changes anything in terms of the remedial work needed. Something like this:

A decent bricky would probably do that in a day, especially if he had someone to do the labouring....!
btw - class A absorb about 4.5% water by weight, class B around 7%. Also it might be worth considering a wider coping, that overhangs by 25mm or so to shed the rain a bit more effectively. Don't forget to ensure the water drains away from the door at the base of the wall. Loads of info on www.brick.org.uk - have a look at the faq section.