Garage Doors

[wizer]

One thing I need to do this year is replace the spendy roller that I installed the year before last with proper doors. The roller is great for convenience, but terrible at keeping the cold out. It has a massive gap at the top and the sides aren't much better. Even if I could plug those holes, the door itself is wafer thin and insulating it would be nigh on impossible. So I'm going to put wooden doors on there. Clearance at the front is not a problem and I can park my car in front of them for added security.

One problem with this brilliant idea. I'd really rather not spend £3-400+ on nice new hardwood doors. The front of our house is always going to be a mess, so I'm thinking about making the doors myself.

This is what I have in mind:

After you've recoiled in shock and horror. I know this is an unconventional design and it isn't going to look great. The front will be clad with shiplap.

Besides being ugly, I wanted to know the problems with this construction. Is there something fundamentally wrong with doing it this way? I take it the big issue is weight. In my drawing above I have used a framework of 100x22mm Should I use 100x50mm? (pushing the weight up considerably).

I should mention that I have made doors like this before on my last workshop. They were of similar size and I used large butt hinges. IIRC I used 2x4's. It went together well and for the few months I had it, it worked fine.

Hit me.

 

[MikeG.]

I can't see why this needs to look ugly, Tom. I would replace the shiplap with vertical T&G boarding (floorboards would be fine), and I would use strap hinges rather than butts. If you can introduce a sheet of board such as ply or OSB it will guarantee that it doesn't sag, and you can then remove a lot of your internal framing. From the outside this will then look like a traditional side hung ledged and braced door.

Mike

 

[wizer]

yes the workshop side will have 12 or 18mm WBP and the inside will have insulation of some sort. So you think with having the ply on the back, I won't need the diagonals?

 

[MikeG.]

Yep, you can certainly leave them out. If you do decide to use strap hinges, then don't forget to put in some short sections of framing wood where the screws will fix.

Mike

 

[Dibs-h]

yes the workshop side will have 12 or 18mm WBP and the inside will have insulation of some sort. So you think with having the ply on the back, I won't need the diagonals?

If you ply it on the inside and and use T&G as per Mike's suggestion - I'd do away with the diagnoal bracing - it wouldn't add anything apart from weight. The ply would be enough to prevent sagging.

I'd be tempted to sking the outer side with some 6-8mm ply as well - just wondering whether the T&G would resist as well as the ply would.

 

[wizer]

Well I thought this would be coldly received.

What about the framework size? Is 22mm x 100mm ok?

Fixing ply on both sides would certainly make fixing the T&G easier.

The good thing about this is that there is a timber framework already there to fix to and the doors can be made and installed before the roller is taken down. I might even leave the roller there for security (not that I think that's necessary).

 

[bodgermatic]

Looks similar to how I did mine. Framing was 2"x2", skin was OSB, with shiplap over the OSB. Mine aren't full-width though, I built a smaller frame inside the opening to hang them in.

 

[Boz62]

If you make the frame the same thickness as whatever insulation you use, it will also give a suitable backing for a draught-proofing strip around the edge. Then maybe some hardboard on the inside to cover the insulation if needs be?

My internal workshop door is 6mm ply facing with a 2x2 frame and rockwool inside (no diagonals). It's 900mm wide with strap hinges and is very solid.

Boz

 

[Steve Maskery]

Hi Tom
I think 100x22 would be fine. Your biggest problem here is going to be twist, isn't it?

You could keep the skin quite thin (to keep the weight down), say 9mm, and fit out the core as a torsion-box construction, so that the skin doesn't collapse completely when you bash it. But the ribs would only need to be every 200mm or so and could be as thin as you like, 4mm ply, say. Then you could cut Kingspan to fit in the voids.

I think you should make the frame with dovetails!

 

[MikeG.]

Tom,

the thickness is going to depend only on how much insulation you want. Personally, I would make this out of 50x50 framework, and the 50mm Kingspan-type insulation will be plenty enough to prevent the ply from flexing in or out. Put in a horizontal at half-height if you want. That really will be plenty.

Mike

 

[OLD]

Roller doors usually run along the inside face of the wall could you just leave them there and stud out the portal with a say double doors and clad a lot less work for a man with a bad back and easy to put back if you move on.

 

[ondablade]

Just a snippet from my own experience, and in case it surfaces as a possibility.

I'm sure there is a correct way of doing it that avoids problems (like providing for cross grain movement), but it seems to be a good idea to stay away from diagonally laid T&G boards on a big door unless you have a proven fix - they can cause twisting by moving on one diagonal and not on the other...

ian

 

[Steve Maskery]

Mike
Is 50mm Kingspan really 50mm? If so, the framework needs to be made from ex 62x50 so that it actually finishes at 50 rather than 50 nominal finishing at 45.

Just a thought.
S

 

[wizer]

Roller doors usually run along the inside face of the wall could you just leave them there and stud out the portal with a say double doors and clad a lot less work for a man with a bad back and easy to put back if you move on.

That's effectively what I'm doing. Man handling them will be an issue. Making them should be fine, it's installing them. Hopefully I can coralle some help at the time. Won't be til late spring.

Steve makes a good point about nominal timber sizing.

Mike, I take it the sheets of polystyrene that you get in the sheds are much less efficient than kingspan?

 

[Doug B]

Tom.

Interesting thread here on garage door construction, with the OP sounding like he was considering something similar to you.
http://www.woodworkuk.co.uk/forum/viewt ... f=4&t=3969[/url]

 

[wizer]

Cheers Doug, missed that one.

The doors he links to in his OP would be lovely

But far too much work for me. I like your diagonal t&g, but again, I'm looking for a simpler solution.

I know SteveM wanted me to use dovetails But infact, I'll be using one of these throughout

If it can't be done with one of those, I'm not doing it

 

[OPJ]

Are you sure you don't want to make a pair of 'proper' doors, like the ones you've linked to above? Think of all the extra daylight... :wink: You could always add some of that black 'limo film' on the inside of the glazing to keep everything inside a secret.

 

[MikeG.]

Tom,

Polystyrene would be fine in these circumstances, being as it is fully encased. I would never recommend it otherwise. It is more thermally efficient than Rockwool, and less than Kingspan. 50mm would make a lovely warm door.

Mike

 

[wizer]

I'd love to Olly, I really would. But apart from not having the skill, I don't have the space or the tooling. Plus, to do them justice, I'd need to use hardwood or at least very good quality softwood. There's just no budget for that. I reckon with my plan here, I can bring both doors in under £100. With the simple construction, I can build them on trestles on my drive in a day and maybe even have them installed by the end of a weekend (maybe a long weekend).

 

[wizer]

cheers Mike, my wallet likes that answer