Freehand sharpening training

[RobNichols]

Hate to distract from the very important conversation about planing angles but ....

In a school apparently.
A teaching and familiarisation aid.
Could this be useful for training those who think hitting 30º freehand is impossible?

View attachment 165919

Personally, what I like about this picture is the paralax error you get if you read the angle from the inside of the door instead of the outside. The outside edge reads as 40 degrees, but the inside reads about 36-37 - yet the sides are parallel and at the same angle (40 degrees).

 

[Jacob]

Hate to distract from the very important conversation about planing angles but ....



Personally, what I like about this picture is the paralax error you get if you read the angle from the inside of the door instead of the outside. The outside edge reads as 40 degrees, but the inside reads about 36-37 - yet the sides are parallel and at the same angle (40 degrees).

Good point! If you were the teacher you could add a note on the floor to that effect.
The same school had things marked up all over the place such as times tables on stair risers and fractions around doors, colour coded etc. Lost the link, it was on FB I think

 

[Ttrees]

I completely agree about full width shavings! I have said several times that I would love to watch somebody take a dozen or so full width shavings from a piece of beech or oak with a Stanley 4 1/2.Maybe if I went to the circus.......

Why would you expect anything less than this?
How many videos of folks actually making use the cap iron, would you obviously not like to watch?

I mention the cap iron, as getting the camber to suit, is quite likely the main problem folks are having, regarding those three reasons folks are failing to understand how to make it work.
(the other two misconceptions being that tight mouths are involved, which is not needed,
or the other being anything less than 50 degrees on the cap iron's leading edge)
It's quite likely folks aren't getting as even of a camber as they make out they can get.

Well, that's judging from the last pictures I posted of a cap iron 1/64" away from the edge,
seemed a foreign concept to many folks here!
Y'know, for smoothing without tearout. (the clue is in the name)

Yet most of ewes are obviously gluttons for punishment,
and choose to omit a fundamental component of the tool.
Yea whatever, you can discuss the merits of doing things freehand, or the polar opposite all day long to your hearts content, no bothers,
but to say that it does muddy the waters for folks who wish for more than another sharpening thread principally concerning sharp, whilst omitting the equally as important camber to suit the job.
It might be interesting for some of ye to read that sometime,
Weaver's "directed pressure" woz where I found the answer for that, seeing as everything else I've tried didn't cut the mustard.
I haven't found the video of it since, as it was just a wee snippet,
but here's two threads thanking David for that, when he frequented here,
should one wish to read the details of getting to corners of the iron suitable for a smoothing plane.


Yes perhaps too advanced for a newbie, they'd ideally want to be planing for a few minutes beforehand, say an hour or so would be sufficient.
that is, provided they have studied Charlesworth's stuff, the only info without bad habits.
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads/sharpening.137789/page-6#post-1587974
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads/plane-and-chisel-sharpening-tools.125696/#post-1396126

 

[worn thumbs]

I don't give a rat's a**e about other peopl's cap iron settings because I know how to set mine,Please tell me where I can see a masochist obtaining a dozen or so full width shavings on oak or beech with a Stanley 4 1/2?

 

[Jacob]

Basic dodgy guru trick is to create false expectations in their clients, then blame them for not attaining them.

 

[Ttrees]

I don't give a rat's a**e about other peopl's cap iron settings because I know how to set mine

That's probably why though, as in most folks aren't honing their plane irons to the required camber
for the cap iron to be involved, so it'll do nothing.

Please tell me where I can see a masochist obtaining a dozen or so full width shavings on oak or beech with a Stanley 4 1/2?

Nothing macho about it, infact using the cap iron will make things much easier in demanding timbers...provided say, Charlesworth's planing methodology is adhered to,
I mention this as he didn't produce any videos with bad habits.
Anyway here's a little smoothing video pretty much exactly what you asked for,
so you needn't be thinking this is some pie in the sky type deal.

 

[worn thumbs]

Dictionaries work!If you use them.

 

[mark w]

I went from free hand sharpening to using a honing guide, quicker, accurate everytime, extends the life of the blade too.

 

[Jacob]

I went from free hand sharpening to using a honing guide, quicker, accurate everytime, extends the life of the blade too.

I did the same briefly but got back to basics in a sort of eureka moment and haven't looked back!
I'd keep having a go if I were you and you might suddenly get it!

 

[mark w]

I did the same briefly but got back to basics in a sort of eureka moment and haven't looked back!
I'd keep having a go if I were you and you might suddenly get it!

A little bit patronising Jacob, I did get it and could free hand sharpen to a very good standard, on leaving school I worked with a carpenter for five years who only did free hand sharpening. When I returned to college to study furniture and cabinet making, I read David Charlesworth's books and I tried his methods, in a eureka moment, for the reasons I listed before, I found them far superior.

 

[Jacob]

A little bit patronising Jacob, I did get it and could free hand sharpen to a very good standard, on leaving school I worked with a carpenter for five years who only did free hand sharpening. When I returned to college to study furniture and cabinet making, I read David Charlesworth's books and I tried his methods, in a eureka moment, for the reasons I listed before, I found them far superior.

Yes sorry - but I came back to it after having been sidetracked by DC and the modern sharpening fashions which I just found too fussy by half, not to mention expensive.
I even flattened a stone once, but then realised it was difficult to get a camber, which previously had been no prob on a slightly hollowed stone - you got one whether you wanted it or not.
What p'd me off more than anything was Charlesworth promoting a highly expensive set of "Odate crowning plates" which gave you back the camber which his own methods had made difficult to achieve in the first place!
A classic case - first make it difficult, then sell you another gadget to make it easier again. Hence the evolution of the honing jig, each one worse, more complicated and more expensive than the one before.
Crowning Achievements

 

[mark w]

Yes sorry - but I came back to it after having been sidetracked by DC and the modern sharpening fashions which I just found too fussy by half, not to mention expensive.
I even flattened a stone once, but then realised it was difficult to get a camber, which previously had been no prob on a slightly hollowed stone - you got one whether you wanted it or not.
What p'd me off more than anything was Charlesworth promoting a highly expensive set of "Odate crowning plates" which gave you back the camber which his own methods had made difficult to achieve in the first place!
A classic case - first make it difficult, then sell you another gadget to make it easier again. Hence the evolution of the honing jig, each one worse, more complicated and more expensive than the one before.
Crowning Achievements

I'm currently reading all the past comments DC posted on this forum, it runs to 50 pages, of course amongst his comments are yours too Jacob, you two certainly liked to have a dig at one another, sometimes but rarely you agreed with one another, it is quite entertaining to read these old posts.
David's techniques aren't for everyone, the work I was doing on leaving school did not require the ability to plane a 1 thou shaving, the work I do now does.
As for finding it difficult to create a camber on a flat stone, I find it easy with David's technique. I did read some comments he put out about the Odate crowning plate and he put a video on his website about it, it's not something I need but some people may find it useful. In my opinion David was a gold mine of information and an obsessive when it came to hand planes and making them work properly. I think when a new product came out which he thought had merit he would share it with us, I'm not convinced everything he promoted was for monetary gain. I met him a few times and once he welcomed me into his lovely workshop, he didn't try to sell me anything, not even one of his courses, he did however pass on some useful tips to me. He is a great loss to our community.
I've gone off topic a bit, sorry.

 

[Jacob]

..... I'm not convinced everything he promoted was for monetary gain.

I agree - except online he often wouldn't answer questions but would refer you to his book instead!

I met him a few times and once he welcomed me into his lovely workshop, he didn't try to sell me anything, not even one of his courses, he did however pass on some useful tips to me. He is a great loss to our community.
.......

Agree, but I wouldn't follow much of his advice!

 

[mark w]

I agree - except online he often wouldn't answer questions but would refer you to his book instead!

Agree, but I wouldn't follow much of his advice!

Everyone is entitled to their opinion Jacob, ours differ slightly.