Freehand sharpening training

[Jacob]

In a school apparently.
A teaching and familiarisation aid.
Could this be useful for training those who think hitting 30º freehand is impossible?

 

[Hornbeam]

Jacob. You have gone on about freehand sharpening to the n'th degree but I cant see that on your scale

 

[Jacob]

Jaco. You have gone on about freehand sharpening to the n'th degree but I cant see that on your scale

I see what you mean!
To the n'th degree could mean a continually revolving door, such as politicians use in furtherance of their careers?

 

[Gary]

In a school apparently.
A teaching and familiarisation aid.
Could this be useful for training those who think hitting 30º freehand is impossible?

View attachment 165919

I don’t believe you hit 30 degrees freehand other than by chance and you won’t hit it again next time.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

but it doesn't matter anyway.

 

[Jacob]

I don’t believe you hit 30 degrees freehand other than by chance and you won’t hit it again next time.

You hit it close enough very easily. Weird how people have become convinced that something so simple has become impossible.

 

[worn thumbs]

You hit it close enough very easily. Weird how people have become convinced that something so simple has become impossible.

Marketing and doubt on the part of the hobbyists that don't have an experienced sidekick in the workshop to push their development.I knew one fellow who turned up fresh from college with a honing guide and the experienced bloke on the next bench threw it out of the door.Much later our former honing guide user admitted that this had done him a big favour.If you principle was adapted to a vertical angle display so that our novice could develop a feel for the correct angle,it might catch on.

As for 30 degrees being the sole and perfect angle,I find it hard to believe that it matters too much and is just a convenient,round number.Would the chisel cease to cut with a 28 degree or 34 degree bevel?

 

[Hornbeam]

.If you principle was adapted to a vertical angle display so that our novice could develop a feel for the correct angle,it might catch on.

Jacob. The search goes on. You will need to find a hinged trap door with markings

 

[TRITON]

Backs away slowly.....

 

[Stigmorgan]

Surely the angle of your bevel does little more than determine the angle you present your tool ( to an extent of course)

 

[Jacob]

Surely the angle of your bevel does little more than determine the angle you present your tool ( to an extent of course)

Well yes and no.

 

[Phill05]

There should be no hard and fast rule to the angle you grind because each one of us uses tools differently what feels better to one of us will not to others.

I was speaking to an old cabinet maker many years ago and he told me "take a set of blades and grind each one of them (it was all done freehand on a stone wheel) to a different angle and make a note at the side of the wheel where you placed them, hone them and try some cuts"

I picked out two that felt and did cut better for me, he picked two different ones, he said "proves a point ma' lad do what's best for you"

This is what gets me worked up with some people demanding there is only their way of doing something there is not try the simple little test on some chisels, what can you lose a little metal, a little time, what can you gain?

 

[TRITON]

https://media.tenor.com/mLwO5QB1NDgAAAAM/haha-stir-the-pot.gif

 

[TRITON]

Surely the angle of your bevel does little more than determine the angle you present your tool ( to an extent of course)
https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url...ved=0CA0QjRxqFwoTCOiQv4rZooEDFQAAAAAdAAAAABAD

 

[Jacob]

There should be no hard and fast rule to the angle you grind because each one of us uses tools differently what feels better to one of us will not to others.

Yebbut if in doubt just stick to 30º. Does for almost everything. It's easy to hit freehand accurately enough and then go higher/lower if you really feel the need.

 

[mc281]

There should be no hard and fast rule to the angle you grind because each one of us uses tools differently what feels better to one of us will not to others.

I was speaking to an old cabinet maker many years ago and he told me "take a set of blades and grind each one of them (it was all done freehand on a stone wheel) to a different angle and make a note at the side of the wheel where you placed them, hone them and try some cuts"

I picked out two that felt and did cut better for me, he picked two different ones, he said "proves a point ma' lad do what's best for you"

This is what gets me worked up with some people demanding there is only their way of doing something there is not try the simple little test on some chisels, what can you lose a little metal, a little time, what can you gain?

Interesting discussion...... I suspect that you have just explained why I dislike grinding and honing so much....... I have always followed the text book and never found my plane satisfying to use, waisting a lot of time and filling my Cuss Box a few times. Always failing to get those long full width shavings we all hanker after.
I did, indeed buy an electric plane but now I'm going back to hand tools, I will have to revisit the practice and try again, whilst ignoring the standard text book angles to a degree (or more!).

 

[Jacob]

..... those long full width shavings we all hanker after.

Not me!
Long shavings sometimes, it all depends, but never full width, unless it's the edge of a board. Wouldn't be possible with a cambered blade on a wide board.
Those demos on youtube are circus performances and should be ignored.

I did, indeed buy an electric plane but now I'm going back to hand tools, I will have to revisit the practice and try again, whilst ignoring the standard text book angles to a degree (or more!).

There's only one angle which it is necessary to know i.e. about 30º as near as you can. Then sometimes a bit more, or less.
n.b. the standard textbook angles are to grind at about 25º and hone at 30º. This advice is for beginners, but in practice it means about 30º for honing and a bit less for grinding. This is how it has always been done until sharpening was reinvented, to sell jigs and gadgets following the boom in DIY from about 1980 onwards.

 

[mc281]

Not me!
Long shavings sometimes, it all depends, but full width never, unless it's the edge of a board. Wouldn't be possible with a cambered blade on a wide board.
Those demos on youtube are circus performances and should be ignored.

There's only one angle which it is necessary to know i.e. about 30º as near as you can. Then sometimes a bit more, or less.

Long shavings full width ... sorry I thought that was obviously only on edge planing.

Angle...... What I said

 

[worn thumbs]

Not me!
Long shavings sometimes, it all depends, but never full width, unless it's the edge of a board. Wouldn't be possible with a cambered blade on a wide board.
Those demos on youtube are circus performances and should be ignored.

There's only one angle which it is necessary to know i.e. about 30º as near as you can. Then sometimes a bit more, or less.
n.b. the standard textbook angles are to grind at about 25º and hone at 30º. This advice is for beginners, but in practice it means about 30º for honing and a bit less for grinding. This is how it has always been done until sharpening was reinvented, to sell jigs and gadgets following the boom in DIY from about 1980 onwards.

I completely agree about full width shavings! I have said several times that I would love to watch somebody take a dozen or so full width shavings from a piece of beech or oak with a Stanley 4 1/2.Maybe if I went to the circus.......

Slight switch of topic but I suspect the DIY boom mentioned was closely related to the rocketing house prices of the 1980's and the proliferation of DIY stores that followed.Remember Texas,Payless,Do It All and the surviving B&Q? Of course,back then the customers might have actually learned the basics at school rather than receiving lectures on resistant materials.

 

[Bingy man]

It’s no different to modern day plumbing methods like plastic pipe and push fit fittings, flexible tubes and pipes etc . I can if need be do a wiped lead joint but it will take time - why would I when I can purchase a compression lead loc fitting that will take far less time to complete . I have no problem soldering copper pipes but I could just as easily use push fit plastic or compression joints . This is because When I started as a plumber there was no speedfit or lead loc,s or pipe slices or any of the modern day fittings and tools we have at our disposal today . It just means more options to solve a problem. People with limited experience can install a plumbing system ,bath/sink/ toilet etc without spending months at a training centre if they want to do themselves. Same with jigs -I don’t want to get a degree ( or 30 lol ) in sharpening. I want something that gives me confidence to sharpen my tools and not ruin them. I don’t want to spend any longer than necessary achieving sharp chisels/ blade irons etc. I’ve not had any formal training in woodworking apart from school and at nearly 60 probably never will so sorry to the time served cabinet makers and other professionals but don’t laugh at me and my veritas jig and I won’t laugh at your speedfit plastic pipe and fittings and the radiators I’ve seen on 1 meter flexes.- horses for courses and each to their own. I do wonder sometimes how many use a sharpening jig and how many do it freehand . Oh dear that sounds like a challenge