Free trade deal with Australia

[RobinBHM]

Without exception every closed society (which is what is required) that has adopted this philosophy has led to elements of its population starving to death, lacking progress technologically and being basically bankrupt. North Korea is the last left, and not many would wish to emulate their success!

I agree, It would be fantastic to be part of a market where trade was totally frictionless, there are no tariffs and goods, services and people can move freely

 

[doctor Bob]

The Brexit mantra of Global Britain is total hogwash.

The UK had a global market as an EU member....Brexit has opened no more opportunities for global trade, it's done the polar opposite: put up a massive barrier between us and our largest trade partner.

Have you ever done any shopping? Our shops are full of products from China, USA, Thailand, Australia, New Zealand, Vietnam.......so EU membership was never a barrier.

I think you have misunderstood my point, which is precisely as you say, we are global. We can't stop it, we can still trade with europe.
Farmers have been going under for years due to the efficiency of big farmers gobbling up small farmers.
My mate in Norfolk with 6000 acres really appreciates the £500,000 you give him every year, so much so he bought a sheep station in aus.

 

[RobinBHM]

Are you serious? Do you not see the vast streams of tax payer money being directed constantly to those who are close to Tory MPs?

Matt Handcocks old pub landlord is the example I mentioned in my post, but, pretty much wherever the Tories splash vast sums of cash, you will find some link.

Dido Harding. Track and trace. Conservative life peer.

Are you really suggesting this is just coincidental?

Tufton street network

https://www.desmog.com/2020/02/13/m...overnment-and-tufton-street-lobbying-network/

 

[Spectric]

Why are some so anti global but pro EU.

Very good question, anyone would think we have never traded global but look back in history and we sailed the seas trading with all manor of countries and the bigger the marketplace the more trade that can happen.

Have you ever done any shopping? Our shops are full of products from China, USA, Thailand, Australia, New Zealand, Vietnam.......so EU membership was never a barrier.

Yes but these trade deals were all controlled by the EU, they were a middle man taken a cut so now deal direct and we should get a better deal, more competition is always good, the US is a much bigger economy than the EU.

 

[julianf]

Without exception every closed society (which is what is required) that has adopted this philosophy has led to elements of its population starving to death, lacking progress technologically and being basically bankrupt. North Korea is the last left, and not many would wish to emulate their success!

To be clear, I specifically said "a little more expensive" or some similar phrase (I can't easily check from my phone)

I was in no way advocating full blown isolation, but simply stating that throwing away entire industries for a minor financial gain was not always the best practice.

 

[doctor Bob]

some people only look for the bad, no deal will be as good as the old deal.
The good old days

 

[Spectric]

Whats the thought on a business, once upon a time you needed a business plan to get finance and then had to stand on your own two feet, how can something be a business if it only survives through handouts and subsidies.

 

[selectortone]

I haven't followed the impossible burger stuff that close for two reasons:
1) I'd hoped that it would be lower cost, as an alternative to beef
2) I'd hoped that it would have a better nutrition profile

Haven't checked the price lately, but the nutrition profile makes it pointless here where beef is often about $3 a pound.

Not everything is fast food. The majority of beef in the US is served/consumed at home. the two new fake meats have a nutrition profile close to 85/15 beef, which is considered kind of lower/entry level here (90/93% lean beef is more common and peoples' palates are changing to eat more lean and less fat).

the impossible meat stuff at this point looks like it's just a false meat that tastes like meat and is fortified for vegetarians (also personally not a fan of fortified foods as the actual absorption of the fortified bits on the whole is lower than absorption from most natural sources).

I like a burger occasionally as part of a varied, balanced diet. As my dear old Mum used to say 'A little of what you like does you good, everything in moderation'.

Here, Beyond Meat burgers are quite expensive, but of the faux meat products I've tried they are the closest to a meat burger. They are nutritionally about the same as a meat burger; roughly the same amount of protein, carbs and fat. Junk food. I don't eat them for the nutrition, I have one as an occasional treat in the way I might enjoy a curry or a chinese takeaway.

I realise that while I continue to eat any meat at all I'm a hypocrite, but where I can eat something that doesn't involve an animal dying I will. There are amazing advances being made in meat alternatives and I look forward to eating more of the stuff and contributing less to the horror show that modern intensive animal farming has become.

 

[D_W]

Are you serious? Do you not see the vast streams of tax payer money being directed constantly to those who are close to Tory MPs?

Matt Handcocks old pub landlord is the example I mentioned in my post, but, pretty much wherever the Tories splash vast sums of cash, you will find some link.

Dido Harding. Track and trace. Conservative life peer.

Are you really suggesting this is just coincidental?

I don't see much tory money trails here from the US, but I would suspect if you did as much to check politicians on your favorite pro wrestling side (the face to you, vs the heels to you), you'd find similar amounts of money hiding and antisocial decisions.

When you're politically independent and start viewing through a lens of all sides, you find out that other than the advertising each uses, both behave similarly.

When someone tells me *how much worse* one side is (especially if they use the term "always"), then I see them as a fanatic who is much like a pro wrestling fan who forgot to snap back into reality when they left the arena.

 

[D_W]

Why are some so anti global but pro EU.

The love of an ideal, but hate of anything equivalent that's not labeled the same. That's why politics works so well on suckers.

 

[Spectric]

Lets involve the monarchy, what has our queen delivered as the longest ever reigning queen compared to old Victoria, which one will have left the best legacy and who was more of a global leader, and pushed British goods worldwide.

 

[deema]

I agree, It would be fantastic to be part of a market where trade was totally frictionless, there are no tariffs and goods, services and people can move freely

A new trade zone of Canada, New Zealand, Australia and the UK would be a brilliant step forward, one based on trade and free movement. We were all (well the majority, without getting into original inhabitants debate) British originally, share the same basis for legal, tax and political with divergence only relatively recently. A common language and many of the same shared values.

 

[Adam W.]

I doubt very much that New Zealand will go for free movement, they'll be swamped.

 

[doctor Bob]

Need to give things time before boarding the bandwagon.
Some people see a band wagon go past and feel the need to jump on immediately, only to be a bit embarassed after a time as it didn't arrive at the destination they expected.

 

[deema]

To be clear, I specifically said "a little more expensive" or some similar phrase (I can't easily check from my phone)

I was in no way advocating full blown isolation, but simply stating that throwing away entire industries for a minor financial gain was not always the best practice.

You are correct, your statement was ‘a little more expensive’.
The major of the industries lost by the UK became inefficient and ineffective against global standards. They were in the main protected by tariffs and subsidies that made them lazy and for the employees to feel entitled to their jobs. They all were ‘a little more expensive’.
The UK has actually probably the best of everything. Labour laws that aren’t too draconian or too lax. A well educated population, a small but buoyant home market. Excellent universities, reasonable tax environment, good access to the biggest global finance market (London).
It can and is the world leader in many areas, so it can compete against anywhere. The point being a little more expensive is an excuse for industries to be lazy and become totally ineffective on a global sense. To Subsidise is a death sentence.

 

[Terry - Somerset]

Personally I am prepared to pay a little extra for a higher quality product - but many/most are not able. We view the world of agriculture through a sort of fantasy bucolic fog.

To feed so many mouths at a price most can afford relies upon automation, processes, ingredients and additives used to optimise appearance, taste, shelf life at minimum cost.

We need to look at a trade deal with Oz (or any other country) in the round. I assume it is not just a beef deal, but may also include other products foodstuffs and services.

To focus on only one element of vocal opposition potentially denies all others the benefits - this is daft in both an economic sense and unfair.

I too regret that we left the EU. The EU had lots of small trade deals agreed, but few with larger nations - eg: India and US negotiations stalled, agreements being negotiated having started China (2013) and Australia (2018), Indonesia (2016).

The EU are desparately slow in agreeing anything internationally simply because it requires the buy in of all member states - cue inflexibility.

 

[doctor Bob]

Sheep in Australia are wool based not lamb. Lamb was very much a bi-product.
I rounded up sheep twice a year, once for dipping, once for shearing, they were basically wild, we worked on one sheep per hectare, hardly intensive, and if it's about free range then they had 400 square miles to roam.

 

[D_W]

I like a burger occasionally as part of a varied, balanced diet. As my dear old Mum used to say 'A little of what you like does you good, everything in moderation'.

Here, Beyond Meat burgers are quite expensive, but of the faux meat products I've tried they are the closest to a meat burger. They are nutritionally about the same as a meat burger; roughly the same amount of protein, carbs and fat. Junk food. I don't eat them for the nutrition, I have one as an occasional treat in the way I might enjoy a curry or a chinese takeaway.

I realise that while I continue to eat any meat at all I'm a hypocrite, but where I can eat something that doesn't involve an animal dying I will. There are amazing advances being made in meat alternatives and I look forward to eating more of the stuff and contributing less to the horror show that modern intensive animal farming has become.

We're on the same page, except I don't have any guilty conscience about eating meat, and I don't get to fantasy land about global warming - solving it will present economic opportunity in the future. If we can't ever have the situation such that there is economic opportunity and meaningfulness in both solving it and continuing to manage it, it's doomed. We are all cost conscious, in public or in private or both.

But the unhealthful part is the stop for me. I don't eat that much beef for two reasons:
1) cost
2) health

If it costs more than most anything else (aside from more exotic foods, that is ...it costs more than chicken and some other proteins), and it's unhealthful at the same time, that's a bad combination. I had false hopes about the imaginary meats that they would be an answer to:
1) taste
2) cost
3) efficiency in production and delivery, and in supply
4) healthfulness

It sounds like they nailed #2 (by synthesizing hemoglobin, etc - doing a very good job of imitating the parts and taste of meat). When I come across the stuff somewhere and it's similar in cost to beef, I'll try it (just not at burger king or some place that could make garlic buttered filet mignon taste like a gym sock),

I think there is virtue in #2 and #3 coming along, and there will be a wider array with some options less meat like but more healthful (and cheaper) and I'll adapt to those. I like cows, but I don't like them enough to insist we have to use them if we don't need them. They convert caloric value into food inefficiently and that's not a great thing as the population grows larger and wealthier on average (and as civilizations grow in parity income, their demand for meat grows).

Sooner or later we're going to start reconciling with the fact that it's not a matter of people using 10% too much of this or 50% too much of that - we're filling the earth with carbon because there are too many of us.

 

[Rorschach]

It can be washed in chlorine.

Works on chicken...... apparently.

Yep, also done on all pre-washed vegetables you eat.

 

[Rorschach]

I doubt Australian imported meat is going to make much of an impact on anything except cheap highly processed products, we currently import that kind of meat from other countries anyway.

I only buy British meat (assuming that type of animal is raised here of course) and it's already very cheap. Very easy to do in any supermarket.