Form, function or price

[Peter Sefton]

If your in the Malvern area you are more than welcome to come in and have a play for yourself.
We have Veritas, Clifton and Woodriver in the workshop sorry no LN in the worksop at the moment. If you have your heart set on LN I am fairly sure you won't be disappointed but if you are looking for low angle I feel Veritas can't be beaten.

Would you be free for the Newark Show you could see them all in one day and then make your mind up.

http://www.nelton.co.uk/midlands-woodwo ... -show.html

Cheers Peter

 

[Vann]

Just my tuppence worth...

I suggest you get the LV BUS (err... Bevel Up Smoother) for it's ability to easily change EP. This might be useful for removing rouge tearout during final smoothing. It has a very good reputation.

Make the other two bevel-down because they're just more user friendly.

...I've seen some issues with the Cliftons over the years with Q&A.

I wouldn't let that put you off Cliftons, they appear to have overcome those issues, and if there is a problem - they're local and have very good after sales service (as do LV & L-N of course).

Cheers, Vann.

 

[Mr T]

Ali27 said:

I would not chose WR/QS planes unless you have small hands. The handle of the QS planes
is too small, designed for a 3 fingergrip. I find it ridiculous. Otherwise the planes seem to quite
well made.

I think the reverse is true. I have large hands and always keep my index finger on the frog whichever plane I'm using and find the LN a squeeze for the remaining fingers compared to the LN.

 

[Vann]

I have large hands and always keep my index finger on the frog whichever plane I'm using and find the LN a squeeze for the remaining fingers compared to the LN.

Hmmm. You may need to clarify - I think there's a typo there.

Cheers, Vann.

 

[ali27]

I have a no4 and no6 QS plane. I hate the handle. It's too small. For me
personally it should be an inch taller. It feels like my hand is being pressed
together if I grab the handle with my whole hand.

I just measured my hand and its 105mm(4 1/4 inch?) at it widest. Not sure if that's
medium or larger, but the QS handle is really uncomfortable to me unless I grab the handle
without using my index finger.

Ali

 

[Jacob]

If the OP doesn't know which planes to buy I'd suggest just buying one: a 5 1/2, ideally an old Record.
Then in a year or so after putting in a lot of hours actually using it, think of buying another - but only if the need is really obvious. The next would most likely be a block plane.
If you have too many too soon, it can stunt your development - repeatedly swapping between planes or buying new ones, rather than developing a good technique with just one.
I did the same many years ago: 5 1/2, 7, 4 1/2. Never used the 4 1/2 sold it years later. Hardly used the 7 - there's not much it can do which can't be done with a 5 1/2. Had to buy a block plane and a shoulder plane (because I needed them!)
Have since acquired a rather pointless collection of odds and ends which hardly get used. One thing which is definitely a complete waste of money is having one of each number - there is so little difference between adjacent ones.

Save yer dosh - buy some wood.

 

[bertikus_maximus]

Interesting that you haven't thought about getting a router plane? These are incredibly useful tools - I recently managed to get hold of a vintage Stanley version and have found it fantastic. Whilst a powered router might be less effort (relatively speaking), I find that no matter how I use it, I sometimes end up with less than satisfactory results. It just seems like a faff having to get everything set up and then all the dust and noise is a bit annoying too.

With regards the wider discussion, I've only ever owned second hand planes (a Record 4, a Record war finish 5, a 1910 Stanley 7) so can't comment on how good a brand spanking new LN or Vertias plane is but I do own a Veritas dovetail saw and you can tell a lot of love and attention went into designing this tool. If Veritas carry that over to their other tools, then I'd imagine their planes are very good. That said, I personally prefer the traditional appearance and don't like the way the handles on Vertias planes have been designed. They look like they'd be a bit flimsy.

A final comment: it was mentioned that you shouldn't discount wooden planes. I think metal planes are the way to go except for the trusty rebate plane. I owned a metal rebate plane once. I hated it. For cross grain work it was hopeless. If you can find one, get hold of a wooden fillister plane. You won't be disappointed! (You can also have a lot of fun with wooden beading planes).

 

[yetloh]

If it's a choice between LN and Veritas I would go with the latter simply on the basis that I would prefer to buy from a company that innovates rather than just copies. The new customising options lokk likely to solve one of my few criticisms of Veritas - that the handles don't suit everyone. The clincher for me is that they now offer the PMVII steel for all their planes- it is streets ahead of 02 - easy to sharpen, really fine very long lasting edge, and doesn't crumble like some A2.

I don't know the Veritas spokeshaves but I have the Woodjoy ones and they are superb. Very easy to sharpen because the blades have no obstructive projections.

Jim

 

[MIGNAL]

A final comment: it was mentioned that you shouldn't discount wooden planes. I think metal planes are the way to go except for the trusty rebate plane. I owned a metal rebate plane once. I hated it. For cross grain work it was hopeless. If you can find one, get hold of a wooden fillister plane. You won't be disappointed! (You can also have a lot of fun with wooden beading planes).

You've missed the one advantage of the wooden Jack/ Smoother etc.
Weight or rather the lack of it. On medium density hardwoods I can do a lot more planing than I can with any metal Plane, it's quicker and less tiring. Not much of a factor if you only plane for 5 minutes but becomes very apparent if you have a fair amount to do.
I use a wooden Jack even on Ebony, quite simply because it's faster and less tiring to lop off 2 or 3 mm's with the wooden Plane than it is with my metal No. 5. 1/2.
That's the problem with searching for the 'best plane'. There isn't one. It's all dependent on use. I'm not stating that a wooden Plane will result in the best finished surface but that last 5% can be saved for the dedicated smoother.

 

[Mr_P]

I use a wooden Jack even on Ebony, quite simply because it's faster and less tiring

:shock: :shock: :shock:

Think I'd use my best Chariot, if I had any ebony

 

[ali27]

If it's a choice between LN and Veritas I would go with the latter simply on the basis that I would prefer to buy from a company that innovates rather than just copies. The new customising options lokk likely to solve one of my few criticisms of Veritas - that the handles don't suit everyone. The clincher for me is that they now offer the PMVII steel for all their planes- it is streets ahead of 02 - easy to sharpen, really fine very long lasting edge, and doesn't crumble like some A2.

I don't know the Veritas spokeshaves but I have the Woodjoy ones and they are superb. Very easy to sharpen because the blades have no obstructive projections.

Jim

I think you made a good point about the innovation argument. I still would not buy the Veritas for the simple
fact that their planes just don't look nice. They really have to work on the aesthetics of their planes IMHO. Just


Ali

 

[bugbear]

That's the problem with searching for the 'best plane'. There isn't one. It's all dependent on use.

That's why you need "more than one"

BugBear

 

[MIGNAL]

. . . And a Wooden one at that. Let's face it, given that they can be had for a few quid it's a no brainer, especially considering the total bill that the OP is looking at - some £1,500 ?

 

[shed9]

Thanks again for the input people.

Peter, appreciate the offer to Malvern. I keep meaning to come in and will one day - just need to find the time.

Just to confirm, my issue is not what planes to buy, but which vendor. I have planes, some old, some new and even some wooden and my preferences are the ones listed in the original post. Just to reiterate, I'm not a newbie asking what tools do I need. I want to buy something that will not require fettling or cleaning up and will pretty much work out of the box. I'm looking for a luxury plane that I will enjoy using and owning, hence the toss up between LN and LV.

I agree with the comments regarding the innovation of Veritas which is why I am considering them as well. I know the Lie Nielsen are superb classic planes but they are just copies (albeit good ones).

I'm not looking to save cash by buying cheap and doing up (I have that already), I want some top end kit. And yes I know you can get away with using cheaper but where's the fun in that?

Oh and Jacob, I have wood and experience using it.

 

[Jacob]

..........They really have to work on the aesthetics of their planes IMHO. ....


Ali

If it matters to you could work on the aesthetics yourself. Why leave it to them?
You could paint them all different colours of your choice, patterns and go-faster stripes, knit them fair isle pattern socks etc

 

[Jacob]

....... And yes I know you can get away with using cheaper but where's the fun in that?.....

Well personally I find it very pleasing and satisfying to get good results from some very ordinary kit. There's no mystery to it, its down to sharpening - get that right and the rest of the plane hardly matters (within reason). I've got a Clifton which looks nice and is mechanically perfect, much more so than various old Records etc, but doesn't give much in terms of value for money. Every time I look at it I think about ebay!
I don't use woodies much but you will find that others make them work well and find them a source of satisfaction too.

 

[Graham Orm]

I want to buy something that will not require fettling or cleaning up and will pretty much work out of the box.

David Charlesworth reckons that the LN are the nearest you will get to working straight from the box. All others are just kit's ready for you to complete....that's if you want it to work straight from the box.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

I want to buy something that will not require fettling or cleaning up and will pretty much work out of the box.

David Charlesworth reckons that the LN are the nearest you will get to working straight from the box. All others are just kit's ready for you to complete....that's if you want it to work straight from the box.

Have a read of this thread for something that works straight out of the box - this one did, even without honing the iron.

my-new-clifton-5-1-2-t87676.html

 

[Cheshirechappie]

..........They really have to work on the aesthetics of their planes IMHO. ....


Ali

If it matters to you could work on the aesthetics yourself. Why leave it to them?
You could paint them all different colours of your choice, patterns and go-faster stripes, knit them fair isle pattern socks etc

Jacob, those are not plane socks. They're not even plain socks! I know you like to sock it to us all, but that really is taking it too far.....

 

[shed9]

I want to buy something that will not require fettling or cleaning up and will pretty much work out of the box.

David Charlesworth reckons that the LN are the nearest you will get to working straight from the box. All others are just kit's ready for you to complete....that's if you want it to work straight from the box.

Have a read of this thread for something that works straight out of the box - this one did, even without honing the iron.

my-new-clifton-5-1-2-t87676.html

I have to say that looks like a stunning plane. I'll have a good look at the graphite range now.