Foot switch for lathe safety?

[amadeus]

Hi all,

I've yet to use my Myford ML8 but as a beginner I want to make sure I am working in as safe an environment as possible.

I have seen various configurations of safety cut-outs for lathes, and wanted to check if there was any reason NOT to use a momentary foot pedal switch like this one to operate a lathe?

I've read that some people think that we are conditioned to press to brake when e.g. driving, but if you use a sewing machine these are press to activate so I don't agree with this argument.

I don't feel like an emergency stop button located to the left of the motor, where the electronics are currently housed, will be particularly safe as I would have to reach behind the head to activate it. I have read about knee-bars but am not confident in setting one up. A foot pedal seems very practical and for my low-usage scenario not unduly uncomfortable.

Thoughts welcome!

Amadeus

 

[Agent_zed]

Only recently started turning so others are sure to have more experience but thinking through the most likely risks the one that it might be most important for is if something got caught around the woodpiece and pulls you in. In that case a footswitch would be pretty useful.
I think it would be less useful for something like a bowl breaking as it will have already flung the piece before you hit the off switch.

I built my own extension lead with a push button stop on a board so I can activate it by foot. I can put it on all of my machines as its an extension. I think it is probably more important for table saws and bandsaws where you might be holding the workpiece and something starts to bind or go wrong and you can't let go to get to the switch.

It also locks off so if i walk away from the machine I'll press it off so someone (my kid most likely) can't accidentally start the machine whilst my back is turned.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I just routed the incoming power through two switched cable outlets, one in the middle of the bench for use when the head is turned and the other other at the end for use when long hole hole boring. A few quid and job done.
(not having feet limits the options.)

 

[Spectric]

I use a foot switch on my pillar drill which gives me both hands free to align the drill and it makes things easier but using a lathe might be different, you have two options which are to use a footswitch to keep it running or you could use a foot operated E stop so it really depends upon your preference and how you will react if something goes wrong. If something goes wrong it often happens in the blink of an eye and neither method will have prevented this from occuring as the lump of wood may well have departed the chuck so you need to weight up the benefits, personally I would opt for an easy access E stop but your best way of ensuring safety is to work safely and follow good practice.

 

[Duncan A]

It's wise of you to be thinking about the safety options but don't think a foot switch is the best solution because wood turning can involve a lot of moving around and shifting balance from one foot to the other, especially when turning long curves.
You would have to keep re-positioning the foot switch and, if you needed to operate it in a hurry, would need to change your balance onto one foot for a second - not good if you're also trying to get out of the way of a lump of wood about to let go.
Best to have a hand switch on a wandering lead as is standard on many lathes nowadays.
Duncan

 

[Agent_zed]

It's wise of you to be thinking about the safety options but don't think a foot switch is the best solution because wood turning can involve a lot of moving around and shifting balance from one foot to the other, especially when turning long curves.
You would have to keep re-positioning the foot switch and, if you needed to operate it in a hurry, would need to change your balance onto one foot for a second - not good if you're also trying to get out of the way of a lump of wood about to let go.
Best to have a hand switch on a wandering lead as is standard on many lathes nowadays.
Duncan

But wouldn't you find having one hand holding a chisel handle and the other holding the steel to the tool rest that you'd have to let go of one of these to go for a switch?

kick bar all the way across the front? either foot could activate. or knee bar?

 

[Richard_C]

I've read that some people think that we are conditioned to press to brake when e.g. driving

An aside. In the very early days of motor cars there was no convention for pedal layout. One manufacturer, may have been Lanchester, decided that because you press the brake pedal down to stop the throttle should work the same way, down to stop and up for fast. That meant spring loading the pedal for up, full throttle. The practice ended when a gentleman was injured or maybe even killed when his chauffeur was shaken from his seat on a rough track. I don't know when the world standardised, but it did so you can jump in any car anywhere regardless of steering position and the pedal layout is as you would expect. Imagine car hire overseas if it wasn't.

Meanwhile, back to stop switches. A lot of current manufacturers offer an in line push button on a magnetic base which you can position on the lathe bed to suit the job in hand. Have a look at Record Power Coronet Herald stop switch for just one example.

 

[Inspector]

Adapt a bite switch...... if you still have teeth that is. Bite switch to a wireless transmitter to activate/deactivate the lathe.
No I haven't made one but it make as much sense as what has been tried before.

Pete

 

[mwinfrance]

but if you use a sewing machine these are press to activate so I don't agree with this argument.

Some of the industrial ones don't , they also have lift pedals, backtack pedals, and one of mine has a stop pedal that will do programmable things before it stops.Or stop dead.

Pete, I would worry about interference on the channel.Our main TV adjusts it's volume independently late at night , I'm sure it is because I advised my two neighbours ( about 25 and 50 metres away ) to use the same ISP ( who supplied us all the same type boxes and remotes ) , one of them has an early start and I'm pretty sure his remote controls our TV after midnight, not changes the channels, but drops our volume when he drops his , just before he switches his off..I must remember to ask him. My sons cordless headphones also can over ride mine or SWMBO's if he changes channels.Different manufacturers.

Radio control switches etc always feels like potentially giving control to random others who might be nearby or passing.

 

[Jacob]

Foot switch frees up a hand but not a lot of use unless it also operates a powerful brake so that the thing can be stopped dead very quickly, like my Startrite 352 band saw - foot brake is a friction brake which also works the switch.
Would have to be carefully designed in for a lathe, which has heavier stuff spinning.

 

[Duncan A]

But wouldn't you find having one hand holding a chisel handle and the other holding the steel to the tool rest that you'd have to let go of one of these to go for a switch?

kick bar all the way across the front? either foot could activate. or knee bar?

Much easier and quicker to jump aside with tool in one hand, and smack the stop button with the other hand, than to jump aside and hit a foot stop at the same time.
OP said he wasn't too sure of fitting a knee bar

 

[amadeus]

Thanks all. For clarity the foot switch wouldn't be a foot stop, it would be a "press to operate" foot switch.

My take away from the above discussion is that it's probably sufficient to:

1. Observe standard safety practices: tie back long hair, loose clothes, hand spin new piece to begin with to check for balance, spin up new piece keeping body out of way until turning starts, turn gently
2. Add an electrical emergency stop switch "near" where you can operate it, with the understanding this won't stop the lathe spinning for some time due to its inertia nor potentially until after a piece has flown off
3. Don't rush

Amadeus

 

[Sideways]

Like Spectric, I've fitted a deadman type footswitch to my pillar drill so that I can have one hand holding the work and the second on the quill. Drill turns as long as foot is on the pedal.

I DON'T think this makes sense for a lathe. You need to move your body to control the tool during a cut and having to keep one foot on a pedal wouldn't work for me at all. Things that interfere with your free and natural movement cause accidents. Better not to cause one in the first place than improve safety for when it has already gone wrong.

Also, accident happens, you're in a panic, your sleeve is wrapped around the work, your about to, if you haven't already face plant into the chuck, that estop needs to be high up, close and visible because you won't be able to remember where on the lathe it's hiding.
I'd want one of those 100mm big red dome things somewhere near the chuck where I can mash it with the wrong hand because the nearest hand to it will be the one that's tangled up, yes ?

 

[cowtown_eric]

I like to use a foot pedal, and haven't yet found a better way to speed things up. The only safety issue was when one of our makerspace members came over to see what I was doing and accidentally stepped on the switch. Was bit of a surprise , but not like the one when a student learning the metal lathe accidentally engaged the chuck while his instructor had his hands on the chuck- whilst leaning over to see what instructor was doing!!


turning the tapers on this project required many trys to ensure snug fit.....every chisel had a slightly different taper!


The first three smaller sizes I didn't use the foot pedal, the other 4 I did, and the time saving was significant

Before you ask. E. A. Beg chisels

And please don't get too picky with my technique,

Eric in the colonies

 

[Fergie 307]

I think most of us saw the recent story of the poor guy who was killed when a piece he was turning disintegrated, and one part hit him in the face. Most metal lathes have a chuck guard, which will hopefully slow down or deflect anything departing the chuck. Wood lathes generally dont. If this happens you are rarely going to get any warning, so a stop switch may not be much help. You might consider wearing some kind of visor when turning something where this is a potential problem, would have probably saved his life. I would be the first to admit that I rarely if ever use the chuck guard, like most it is perspex or similar and quickly gets to the stage where you can't see through it. As others have said good practice is by far the best way of staying safe. Also I mainly turn metal, which is much more predictable stuff, and tends to behave itself unless you do something daft. On the downside any decent sized metal lathe has enormous torque, so if you do get tangled in it you are not going to have a good day. I am quite sure my old Harrison would tear my arm off without missing a beat, and have seen some horrendous photographs where just this sort of thing has happened. On a similar vein I did see an accident with a tractor PTO shaft. The driver had got off to look at something and had the shaft running, we heard a scream and ran over to find him white as a sheet and shaking like a leaf. He was standing in just his underpants and boots, whilst his overalls were going flap flap round the shaft. Lucky for him he was wearing an old threadbare set of overalls, that we had all constantly taken the p out of. As it turned out they probably saved him. When they got caught he had grabbed hold of something and the shaft just tore them off. If he had been wearing a new set it would undoubtedly have pulled him in and probably killed him. Then again he had a reputation for being a bit of a pratt, and most of us would have either turned it off, or made sure to keep away from the damn thing.

 

[Agent_zed]

Also, accident happens, you're in a panic, your sleeve is wrapped around the work, your about to, if you haven't already face plant into the chuck, that estop needs to be high up, close and visible because you won't be able to remember where on the lathe it's hiding.

I'm not saying you shouldn't have a big stop button high up. But if I get my sleeve caught it is likely to be my left hand so you'd have to place the button carefully as my right hand will have a very sharp ended tool that I'd have to either drop and risk cutting my leg/foot or continue to hold whilst going for a button whilst being pulled off balance so is now mid height somewhere.

After reading all the above posts I'm not sure there is a perfect solution. I guess it comes down to personal preference on which method you think is going to work best for you and practice doing it so it becomes a reflex.

metal lathe accidentally engaged the chuck while his instructor had his hands on the chuck

All the metal lathes at the school I used to work at had covers over the chuck part that if raised turned off the machine. Also stops you leaving the chuck key in .

 

[Dave Moore]

Hi all,

I've yet to use my Myford ML8 but as a beginner I want to make sure I am working in as safe an environment as possible.

I have seen various configurations of safety cut-outs for lathes, and wanted to check if there was any reason NOT to use a momentary foot pedal switch like this one to operate a lathe?

I've read that some people think that we are conditioned to press to brake when e.g. driving, but if you use a sewing machine these are press to activate so I don't agree with this argument.

I don't feel like an emergency stop button located to the left of the motor, where the electronics are currently housed, will be particularly safe as I would have to reach behind the head to activate it. I have read about knee-bars but am not confident in setting one up. A foot pedal seems very practical and for my low-usage scenario not unduly uncomfortable.

Thoughts welcome!

Amadeus

When I had an ML8 I made a plate which I mounted on the back of the pulley housing and bolted a stop button on the front of the plate so it was above the pulley housing within easy reach.
regards,
Dave

 

[Dave Moore]

I like to use a foot pedal, and haven't yet found a better way to speed things up. The only safety issue was when one of our makerspace members came over to see what I was doing and accidentally stepped on the switch. Was bit of a surprise , but not like the one when a student learning the metal lathe accidentally engaged the chuck while his instructor had his hands on the chuck- whilst leaning over to see what instructor was doing!!


turning the tapers on this project required many trys to ensure snug fit.....every chisel had a slightly different taper!


The first three smaller sizes I didn't use the foot pedal, the other 4 I did, and the time saving was significant

Before you ask. E. A. Beg chisels

And please don't get too picky with my technique,

Eric in the colonies

Are these even woodworking chisels?

 

[Dave Moore]

I think most of us saw the recent story of the poor guy who was killed when a piece he was turning disintegrated, and one part hit him in the face. Most metal lathes have a chuck guard, which will hopefully slow down or deflect anything departing the chuck. Wood lathes generally dont. If this happens you are rarely going to get any warning, so a stop switch may not be much help. You might consider wearing some kind of visor when turning something where this is a potential problem, would have probably saved his life. I would be the first to admit that I rarely if ever use the chuck guard, like most it is perspex or similar and quickly gets to the stage where you can't see through it. As others have said good practice is by far the best way of staying safe. Also I mainly turn metal, which is much more predictable stuff, and tends to behave itself unless you do something daft. On the downside any decent sized metal lathe has enormous torque, so if you do get tangled in it you are not going to have a good day. I am quite sure my old Harrison would tear my arm off without missing a beat, and have seen some horrendous photographs where just this sort of thing has happened. On a similar vein I did see an accident with a tractor PTO shaft. The driver had got off to look at something and had the shaft running, we heard a scream and ran over to find him white as a sheet and shaking like a leaf. He was standing in just his underpants and boots, whilst his overalls were going flap flap round the shaft. Lucky for him he was wearing an old threadbare set of overalls, that we had all constantly taken the p out of. As it turned out they probably saved him. When they got caught he had grabbed hold of something and the shaft just tore them off. If he had been wearing a new set it would undoubtedly have pulled him in and probably killed him. Then again he had a reputation for being a bit of a pratt, and most of us would have either turned it off, or made sure to keep away from the damn thing.

An ML8 hasnt got a direct drive like a metalworking lathe probably has as it’s on a rubber drive band so if it jams the rubber belt will take up some of the torque. You probably wouldn’t stop a metalworking lathe if you jam it up before something breaks. Not downplaying the risks but I used an ML8 for several years. More of a problem was rapping my fingers on my four jaw chuck which is another story.
regards,
Dave

 

[XTiffy]

My ML8 has a stop button that is positioned at thigh height i.e . just below the bed, and is very easy to actuate, with leg or hand. I have accidentally hit it when turning but have always thought "better safe than sorry", so never felt like moving it. I would definitely advocate a safety cut off button at that height not on the floor. My starter is a push button device with a large emegency stop button.

In my first year of my RN apprenticeship , we had to cut the sleeves off of our overalls above the elbow. This was with overhead belt driven lathes, which could not be stopped quickly.