Fluting/routing jig advice please?

[Shan]

Greetings folks! Attempting to add some flutes and decorative designs on some bowls but struggling with the logistics. Have made an indexing system but got myself into a muddle with the next stage. Will a Dremel tool be suitable to do the routing? It's an older model 300 but didn't want to take the plunge(opps) & buy a dedicated router if the Dremel will suffice. Might be a bit weak but look forward to some feedback.
If the Dremel will suit I haven't got my head around how to make a sled/track for it. Any help/ideas/pointers much appreciated. Have looked on the net but doesn't seem to be much out there for what I'm intending to do or I've just beenlooking in the wrong place. Cheers Shan

 

[Orraloon]

Not something I have tried but I have cut flutes on strait bits of wood. A dremel will likely do small flutes and slowly but a trim router would be a better all round tool for the job.
Flutes on a cylinder should be easy enough but doing a bowl would need the router to follow that curve and really need to made for a particular bowl. Other way is something off the lathe that can index the bowl then move it past a fixed router. Try having a look at Ornamental Turning. Those guys build some very complex jigs.
Regards
John

 

[bobajobob]

I have found dremels to be inadequate for precise fluting. The bearings are not secured in the bodies sufficiently to produce consistent results. This can be improved if you are prepared to tinker with the innards. The Proxxon units are much better and their flexible drives have secure bearings too. I use the flex drives to access difficult areas and are easier to mount in fixtures. The key factor is rigidity and the elimination of free play in your jig designs. Producing decorative and sculptural features is a fascinating addition to lathe work. If you are prepared to invest time in developing your jigs you can achieve results superior to anything that expensive manufactured tools are capable of.

 

[Shan]

Not something I have tried but I have cut flutes on strait bits of wood. A dremel will likely do small flutes and slowly but a trim router would be a better all round tool for the job.
Flutes on a cylinder should be easy enough but doing a bowl would need the router to follow that curve and really need to made for a particular bowl. Other way is something off the lathe that can index the bowl then move it past a fixed router. Try having a look at Ornamental Turning. Those guys build some very complex jigs.
Regards
John

John, thanks for that, I will check out the ornamental turning sites, hopefully get me on my way. Initially I will probably attempt a straight sided bowl as yes anything concave or convex would be much more complex. Thanks again.

 

[Shan]

I have found dremels to be inadequate for precise fluting. The bearings are not secured in the bodies sufficiently to produce consistent results. This can be improved if you are prepared to tinker with the innards. The Proxxon units are much better and their flexible drives have secure bearings too. I use the flex drives to access difficult areas and are easier to mount in fixtures. The key factor is rigidity and the elimination of free play in your jig designs. Producing decorative and sculptural features is a fascinating addition to lathe work. If you are prepared to invest time in developing your jigs you can achieve results superior to anything that expensive manufactured tools are capable of.

The work looks stunning! I think that if I can start out with just a straight line on a bowl I will have achieved something. I have the flexible shaft that came with the Dremel so that might be where I start but it's a small collet so wil only accept a small router bit. Maybe a trim router but possibly later. If the Proxxon is compatible with the Dremel I could purchase the flexible shaft if you say that the bearings are better but my Dremel is probably under powered unfortunately. But great job on the jugs. Cheers

 

[bobajobob]

A sled mounted trim router is probably the most versatile starting option. This offers a wide cutter choice and with a little sophistication the axis can be tilted to create interesting effects. Add a follower to the sled to track a bowl profile and you can trace a guide to follow any form. (as my previous images) Helical paths are a much tougher challenge you may wish to investigate later. I don't have any photos of my jigs as I cannibalise them after achieving a result to make other tools.

 

[RogerJSJ]

I made a jig based on this YouTube clip

It worked reasonably well using an old corded Bosch router but would agree with bobajob that you do need to come up with a way that eliminates any unwanted movement. I tried copying the concept behind Paul Howards jig with a "limiter" over the end of the router bit to control the depth of cut rather than just relying on the distance of the router from the piece of wood.

 

[Shan]

Cheers for the feedback. I've got a step closer now as have managed to mount a base on the tool rest that can pivot so can change the angle. Will start with the Dremel and hopefully buy some router bits tomorrow. Have started on the sled but not complete yet.
Just a couple more questions, do you finish sanding before cutting the flutes or does that not matter as you need to sand it afterwards? I was probably going to start on a piece of magnolia. Good choice or not? My thinking being it doesn't have a strong grain and with the flutes it won't look to 'busy'? Or am I deluded in my thoughts on that? Thanks

 

[bobajobob]

Sanding. I generally sand and seal before routing. Minimal (fine) sanding after routing to preserve definition.
Timber choice. Fine grain hardwoods generally best. Sorry, unfamiliar with magnolia. If using exotics I generally do a test cut on scrap wood first.
Cutter sharpness is critical, especially if cutting deep flutes. Multiple passes are to be avoided if possible. Overlapping flutes can be troublesome.

The work order should be carefully considered to permit secure holding during routing and avoidance of damage post-routing.
Warning! Once you get the hang of this it becomes addictive.

 

[Spectric]

Maybe one of these or some jig based on this concept

https://www.pantorouter.com/

 

[benitod]

Hi, Shan.
Some googling for paulhowardwoodturner.com.uk can shed some light on your request.

 

[Shan]

Hi, Shan.
Some googling for paulhowardwoodturner.com.uk can shed some light on your request.

Ok, thanks I'll check him out. Have come across the name via Pinterest but the page didn't open. Shan

 

[Shan]

Sanding. I generally sand and seal before routing. Minimal (fine) sanding after routing to preserve definition.
Timber choice. Fine grain hardwoods generally best. Sorry, unfamiliar with magnolia. If using exotics I generally do a test cut on scrap wood first.
Cutter sharpness is critical, especially if cutting deep flutes. Multiple passes are to be avoided if possible. Overlapping flutes can be troublesome.

The work order should be carefully considered to permit secure holding during routing and avoidance of damage post-routing.
Warning! Once you get the hang of this it becomes addictive.

Many thanks again. I'll heed the warning! Still flaffing around with the sled but nearly there. Hopefully have some photos next week???

 

[Shan]

Sanding. I generally sand and seal before routing. Minimal (fine) sanding after routing to preserve definition.
Timber choice. Fine grain hardwoods generally best. Sorry, unfamiliar with magnolia. If using exotics I generally do a test cut on scrap wood first.
Cutter sharpness is critical, especially if cutting deep flutes. Multiple passes are to be avoided if possible. Overlapping flutes can be troublesome.

The work order should be carefully considered to permit secure holding during routing and avoidance of damage post-routing.
Warning! Once you get the hang of this it becomes addictive.

Ok. Finally got my act together & completed my 1st bowl with flutes around the rim. It's magnolia wood as was what I had at hand. Used the Dremel but it did struggle as I thought it might. Didn't have a big range of router bits so wasn't ideally what I had in mind. Thought a v cut or half round shape would have looked better. Needs a bit of sanding and a finish.

Looks a bit like an ash tray but didn't fancy cutting flutes around the outside and probably good thing. Thanks once again for the tips and will definitely give it another shot. Cheers

 

[bobajobob]

Well done Shan. That's a good result that I hope gives you the incentive to keep experimenting. Every attempt is a great learning experience. You did well to make such deep cuts with the dremel. A trim router with more substantial bits would cope a lot better with this type of work. As benitod suggested, you could glean a lot of useful info by examining the equipment/techniques that can be found on jig manufacturer's sites. Good luck. I hope you get as much pleasure as I did, developing your tools and techniques.