Flu ***

[Bm101]

I would think there are very real concerns among scientists in the medical community about the fact that any possible forthcoming ( covid ) immunisation might not happen to any real effect due to the sheer stupidity of people getting their news from social media. We've seen the rise globally of anti vaxers in recent years. If enough people don't vaccinate there will certainly be the possibility of reduced efficiency. Combine this with the biggest attempted inoculation in world history and it's going to be 'interesting'.
Personally, my opinion on it all generally .......if you can't produce certification of vaccination for your kids they should not be allowed in schools etc. Your choice not to vax but then you are removed from the rest of us that take the chance that we are doing the right thing.
You have to not live in an age of Mumps and Rickets and Measles and SmallPox to think it would be better in the old days.
I despair to be honest. At least before the internet these idiots couldn't join up with other idiots and stroke each others egos and start more fires for more idiots to put their hands into... Its terrifying....
Meanwhile, in China untested 'vacines' not even at test stage were being sold in the last few days with Government authority. Pay your c. $60 equivalent and get injected. They were running to queue up.
Make of that what you will.

Artie. You do seem like you want a fight there mate tbh. No matter how you dress it up as 'discussion'. I don't get involved in these threads but you are picking at this like an 8 year old with fresh scabs. No one is 'shouting you down'. Go and have a pint.

 

[artie]

I would think there are very real concerns among scientists in the medical community about the fact that any possible forthcoming ( covid ) immunisation might not happen to any real effect due to the sheer stupidity of people getting their news from social media. We've seen the rise globally of anti vaxers in recent years. If enough people don't vaccinate there will certainly be the possibility of reduced efficiency. Combine this with the biggest attempted inoculation in world history and it's going to be 'interesting'.
Personally, my opinion on it all generally .......if you can't produce certification of vaccination for your kids they should not be allowed in schools etc. Your choice not to vax but then you are removed from the rest of us that take the chance that we are doing the right thing.
You have to not live in an age of Mumps and Rickets and Measles and SmallPox to think it would be better in the old days.
I despair to be honest. At least before the internet these idiots couldn't join up with other idiots and stroke each others egos and start more fires for more idiots to put their hands into... Its terrifying....
Meanwhile, in China untested 'vacines' not even at test stage were being sold in the last few days with Government authority. Pay your c. $60 equivalent and get injected. They were running to queue up.
Make of that what you will.

Artie. You do seem like you want a fight there mate tbh. No matter how you dress it up as 'discussion'. I don't get involved in these threads but you are picking at this like an 8 year old with fresh scabs. No one is 'shouting you down'. Go and have a pint.

Why does it bother you if I ask polite questions, I have learned a lot from forums over the years.

Here's a question for you, if you were in charge and ostracised children from schools etc, would you also exempt them from taxes?

 

[Droogs]

If you have ever heard the term "oh they died of - black lung/the lung/Consumption" that was TB and people walking around coughing up particles of blood saturated with the virus into the air and infecting a large percentage of the population in urban areas. Covid is no different in how it works to get into you

 

[SammyQ]

Agreed Roger. Replying in this thread is - like giving a pig a strawberry - totally wasted, as the responses can ( inevitably) be categorised as "Yebbut, what if..." fill.in your own surreal, highly unlikely scenario....
I'm off. You're blocked Artie.

Sam

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Vaccines are inevitably a bit of a leap of faith: as individuals we never know what fate had in store for us if we had not had that injection.

“Among the deficiencies of hindsight is that while we know the consequences of what was done, we do not know the consequences of some other course that was not followed.” W. Churchill.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

If you have ever heard the term "oh they died of - black lung/the lung/Consumption" that was TB and people walking around coughing up particles of blood saturated with the virus into the air and infecting a large percentage of the population in urban areas. Covid is no different in how it works to get into you

My grandfather died of TB in 1941, 12 years before I was born. My grandmother worked in the local country hospital, which was a TB sanatorium.

 

[AJB Temple]

I wonder what the supposed difference is between young and old as far as a virus is concerned.

afaik testing without a control group isn't proper testing, what alternative is there?

Older people are often weaker, more frail, have other problems. In summary a bit crocked. Some of them are also more argumentative and difficult apparently. You will find it creeps up on you I expect.

Control group - see above where I was talking about statistics. The alternative is long term analysis of death rates, which is a perfect hindsight analysis. This, though, is obvious.

 

[doctor Bob]

Recently an anti vaxxer died and finds herself at the pearly gates.
God greets her, shows her around and asks if she has any questions.

She says "Not about heaven, but was I right about vaccines?"

God laughed and said "No, vaccines are perfectly safe and should be administered to everyone".

The woman just can't believe it.

She's absolutely distraught, until it finally dawns on her: this conspiracy must go even higher than I thought!"

 

[Bm101]

 

[Bm101]

Here's a question for you, if you were in charge and ostracised children from schools etc, would you also exempt them from taxes?

Ok. I'll bite. Once.
No I would not. Because I wouldn't be 'ostracising' (good try) the children, I would be making the parents who made the decisions for their children take responsibility for their decisions in a society based largely on mutual awareness.
If you want to live off grid, go stoneage, raise your kids in the forest. Homeschool them properly. Buy a bit of land in West Wales and crack on. Great. No issues with that whatsoever. Don't want to pay taxes that's fine. Really. But you forgo public education, health care, national pension, basic dentistry, road tax, etc. You have to contribute in some form or you are a pest.
Walk the walk, don't talk the talk.
Do it properly. Not half arsed with bad science and no education because you listened to some twonk on facebook.
If I was just a little different, no kids, different Mrs, good chance I could have gone down the road I was on at one point as a younger fella. But I didn't and as a father now I want my kids to have the best possibilities available to them. Even at the cost of my own.

 

[Trevanion]

Buy a bit of land in West Wales and crack on.

 

[Lons]

Yeah we don't want him in Northumberland either, there are enough of that type already resident in a couple of towns along the coast. Just look at where the main spikes are to find out where.

 

[SammyQ]

Just amble'in along, blythly minding your own business when you spotted all those sloths Bob?
Just askin'....
Sam

 

[artie]

Ok. I'll bite. Once.
No I would not. Because I wouldn't be 'ostracising' (good try) the children, I would be making the parents who made the decisions for their children take responsibility for their decisions in a society based largely on mutual awareness.
If you want to live off grid, go stoneage, raise your kids in the forest. Homeschool them properly. Buy a bit of land in West Wales and crack on. Great. No issues with that whatsoever. Don't want to pay taxes that's fine. Really. But you forgo public education, health care, national pension, basic dentistry, road tax, etc. You have to contribute in some form or you are a pest.
Walk the walk, don't talk the talk.
Do it properly. Not half pineappled with bad science and no education because you listened to some twonk on facebook.
If I was just a little different, no kids, different Mrs, good chance I could have gone down the road I was on at one point as a younger fella. But I didn't and as a father now I want my kids to have the best possibilities available to them. Even at the cost of my own.

So, taxation without representation?

 

[Jake]

Frequently. One of the reasons isolation hospitals (sanitoriums) came into being.

My mother spent a couple of years in one as a kid.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

My grandmother kept the family in milk during the war by taking home goat's milk from the sanatorium - goats were thought to be immune to TB so the milk was thought to be beneficial to TB patients, but most of them wouldn't drink it so the staff took it home.

 

[Lons]

Just amble'in along, blythly minding your own business when you spotted all those sloths Bob?
Just askin'....
Sam

Yeah there but I was also thinking of Ashing / Bedling - tons of the cr*p around there.

 

[MikeJhn]

I try not to put anything artificial into my body or blood stream, If I have a headache or stomach upset I believe it's my body telling me I have abused it and I should suffer the consequences, this is despite having TB, Scarlet Fever and all the other child complaints of the 40's and 60's and a heart condition from birth, I just keep away from people that are sick.

 

[marcros]

Yeah we don't want him in Northumberland either, there are enough of that type already resident in a couple of towns along the coast. Just look at where the main spikes are to find out where.

no to Yorkshire too.

 

[profchris]

As I'm just too young to get it free, I'm paying for the flu vaccine tomorrow. It costs the same as a very moderate bottle of wine.

There is a risk of serious side effects, but much lower than my risk of being killed or injured by a lightning strike.

I'm spending a few days a month in London, travelling by Tube and teaching students. My risk of catching flu is higher than many here. And I'm not 30 any more so I'd suffer more.

The vaccine reduces my risk of catching flu by 30% or more. That's a hugely greater reduction in risk than from side effects. Maybe 100 times greater, maybe 1,000 times, maybe more.

I can see why vaccines are scary - there is a known, tiny, risk because you know you've been vaccinated. If you don't understand risk, catching flu might seem less risky as you might not get it. You have to run the numbers to realise that it's by far the opposite, but in my experience most people can't really take in numbers (natural aptitude, not education). What would convince them is more people they know dying from flu than from vaccines, but flu on its own doesn't kill many.

Now, people dying of TB, as they used to, would be a lot more visible.