Fitting bathroom standpipes (shrouds)

[RogerS]

I admit defeat! I can't see how this can be done without ripping down the ceiling underneath. But there must be a way surely but how? Need to fit a pair of standpipe shrouds similar to these



What is foxing me is how you make the bottom connection (arrowed). Options are:

1) Copper right angle and solder? But the length of those elbows means it will hardly appear above the tiling. I'll be blasting a flame straight at the underlying ply supporting substrate...surely not a good idea.

2) Ditto compression join. The elbow is going to be too short to stick above the tiles to get a spanner on. Or are there special elbows with long legs designed for this?

3) Hep2O push-fit.....how to get support underneath the elbow to resist the downward pressure as you push the vertical pipe in. Can't see how.

4) Remove ceiling in room below.

Not helped by SWMBO saying 'shouldn't we get someone in'....grrrrrrrr :evil:

 

[Graham Orm]

Is the floor already tiled? The way to do it would be to take up adjacent boards so you have access to the under side of the sub-floor elbow.

 

[RogerS]

No floorboards. The substrate is marine grade ply.

 

[Graham Orm]

The ply will probably have floorboards beneath it, can you cut a section out next to where you are working? Have you done this sort of thing before?

 

[MMUK]

I'll second the "escape hatch" approach

 

[RogerS]

The ply will probably have floorboards beneath it, can you cut a section out next to where you are working? Have you done this sort of thing before?

No, none at all...you can see the exact situation here



I've done most things before but never fitting these standpipes. I asked over on AskTheTrades and the consensus from one very experienced guy is that they are the spawn of Satan and whoever designed them should bloody well come and fit them. I agree that perhaps I could go and make some floorboards up but as I have a tiler coming in to do the ensuite tiling I don't think he'd be that chuffed doing a partial tile, going away to let me plumb up, then fix down the floorboards then come back and finish tiling. And given that heavy 68kg bath going down I'd prefer to have as good a floor underneath it as I can.

 

[AndyT]

Would it help to add a straight connector in the vertical pipe? This would let you assemble both sides of the elbow and could give the effect of an elbow with one tall side.

 

[RogerS]

Would it help to add a straight connector in the vertical pipe? This would let you assemble both sides of the elbow and could give the effect of an elbow with one tall side.

I did wonder about that but I checked the internal bore of the shroud and there is only enough room for a 'man's solder connector'....and without any extra blobs of solder round the outside. Plus there won't be a lot of slack available to slide the shroud up out of the way...two man job probably...someone holding the shroud and asbestos mat to protect it....no, I see trouble. How do you hold the bottom pipe steady/at the right height?

That ceiling partial-removal is looking more likely ....bugger. You know you don't want to go there because you get 'that look' from SWMBO. The look that says 'do you know what you are doing...why don't you get a man in'. :evil:

 

[Graham Orm]

Fix a floorboard/slice of ply around the area, fit the pipes while you have access to do so then fit the rest of the floor around it?

 

[RogerS]

Tiling. Thats the problem. I'm not doing it

 

[Graham Orm]

Can't he tile round them once the floor is re-laid? Are they for a free standing bath?

 

[RogerS]

Yes it is a free-standing bath.

I can relay the floor ..that isn't the problem. There will be two holes where the vertical 22mm pipes come through. So I guess i could make the bottom elbow joint and then have 3ft or so of pipe sticking up. ..definitely longer than what is required..then drill two holes to match in the large heavy plywood sheet. Then somehow drop the sheet over the pipes..bearing in mind that the sheet will go right up to the walls on two sides so no opportunity for anyone to hold the sheet on those sides. Assuming that that has actually worked then I'm not sure how pleased the tiler will be working around those 3ft pipes...probably OK at a guess. Then when he has finished and the tiles have set, sticking the shrouds over with the floor flange, pulling the pipe upwards so that it has at least 4" or so above the shroud, asbestos mat round the top of the shroud to protect it from the gas burner then solder the tap connector on the end. Repeat for the other side. Push the pipes back down ...although I don;t think I have that much wiggle room TBH. I can see so many things that could go wrong.

Actually that's not going to work because the floor flanges need fixing in position after the taps which bridge the vertical shrouds at the top will really need to be fitted so that the bottom flanges get put in the right place...pipes vertical and parallel to each other. I'm going to have to temporarily fit the taps, align the flanges, mark their fixing hole positions, remove the taps, lift the shroud and flange so that i can drill the fixing holes through the tiles using a small hollow diamond drill bit....which I won't be able to do if the top tap connectors have been soldered on.

 

[Graham Orm]

1. Connect the stand pipes in position.
2. Cut a panel of ply wide enough to span both pipes, drill holes and drop over pipes.
3. Make good rest of floor.
If the tiller is worth his salt the pipes should create no problem at all.

 

[jasonB]

Solder on an elbow with a short length of pipe for the horizontal. feed them down through a hole in teh tile. Leave a big ovel hole under the bath to fit isolating valves and make any connections before you place the bath over the oval hole. Thats how I did the similar one which is one advantage over baths with feet.

Or get some 900mm long flexi 22mm tap connectors rather than using the copper and use in heh same way making teh connection under the bath

 

[RogerS]

1. Connect the stand pipes in position.
2. Cut a panel of ply wide enough to span both pipes, drill holes and drop over pipes.
3. Make good rest of floor.
If the tiller is worth his salt the pipes should create no problem at all.

Yup..I can see how that will work, thanks....

Solder on an elbow with a short length of pipe for the horizontal. feed them down through a hole in teh tile. Leave a big ovel hole under the bath to fit isolating valves and make any connections before you place the bath over the oval hole. Thats how I did the similar one which is one advantage over baths with feet.

Or get some 900mm long flexi 22mm tap connectors rather than using the copper and use in heh same way making teh connection under the bath

but this approach appeals more to me...

need to look at the layout of beams and supports etc.

Many thanks guys.....you've made me a happy man.

 

[Graham Orm]

Good luck, keep us informed.

 

[AndyT]

What a horrible problem to be stuck with. I guess you don't want me to suggest boxing in the bath, so I won't say that. Nor would you like the perfectly acceptable (to me) option of the chrome plastic trims which snap around copper pipe in situ. But I am wondering how you will ever put it right if the trap blocks or anything starts to leak.
So two other thoughts just in case.... use chromed pipe and leave it on show, without the shrouds?
And for putting the ply down over the vertical pipes - threading a heavy sheet with a hole in it sounds too risky to me. I would drill the holes in the right place then split the sheet in two along a line drawn through the holes. Obviously you'd need an extra bearer underneath to screw the two edges down to but it should still be strong and level enough to tile over.

PS - presumably these things don't come with a manual at all?!

 

[RogerS]

...
PS - presumably these things don't come with a manual at all?!

yes.

1) Fit tap connector
2) Fit bottom connector

...more or less !

 

[RogerS]

Ah well. The compression connector on the 900m flexi is 31mm diameter and so too big for the tube. It will have to be Jason's first option.

Incidentally, the K12 C bath outlet is fittable from the top ie no backnut.

 

[jasonB]

The other option is to flog the ones you have on e-bay and buy two piece ones where the top section of shroud telescopes over the bottom so you connect your taps and then just slide the outer section up to hide the tap connector and thread from the tap. Bathstore ones work that way.

Re the flexis, can you push the tap end up the shroud rather than the compression end down, though they are likely to be the same hex so may not work

J