Fireplace opening

[No skills]

Hello people, yet another of my inane building questions.

Later in the year I would like to raise the height of our fireplace opening, is this a building regs and engineers drawing job or can I just do it myself with a couple of 100mm prestressed concrete lintels? Current opening seems to be a steel bar/brick arch affair.

House is 1890's solid brick walls (no cavity), fireplace at the front seems to be double thickness brick tied into the exterior wall and the chimney is still intact all the way up and out the roof. It is not in use and won't be for the time we live here.

In wonderment..

 

[Mark A]

Funny enough I've been replacing rotten oak lintels today and have a couple more to start tomorrow. It's a fairly straight forward job.

How I would approach it:

Hack off the render around the fireplace

Support the wall above with a couple of acro props and strongboys. Make sure they're far enough above as to not be in the way

Take out the existing brick and steel up whatever height you wish the finished fireplace to be

Cut out notches to either side large enough to accommodate the new lintels. You may have to rest the lintels on engineering bricks? (My house is stone so I've been casting concrete padstones)

Insert lintels and patch up the brickwork
Disclaimer: I'm not a builder - just a keen amateur with shallow pockets

Mark

 

[Lons]

Funny enough I've been replacing rotten oak lintels today and have a couple more to start tomorrow. It's a fairly straight forward job.

How I would approach it:

Hack off the render around the fireplace

Support the wall above with a couple of acro props and strongboys. Make sure they're far enough above as to not be in the way

Take out the existing brick and steel up whatever height you wish the finished fireplace to be

Cut out notches to either side large enough to accommodate the new lintels. You may have to rest the lintels on engineering bricks? (My house is stone so I've been casting concrete padstones)

Insert lintels and patch up the brickwork
Disclaimer: I'm not a builder - just a keen amateur with shallow pockets

Mark

Just to add a note to that:
You should insert the props as low as possible above the proposed new opening but high enough to give working clearance, that way you support as much of the construction as is physically possible. Also check to see which way the floor joists are running on the ceiling / floor above if there is one as the wall above the fireplace could well be supporting those and might need an additional prop.

When packing the gap it's good practice to knock in some wedge packing to make sure of no movement while the mortar is setting. pieces of roofing slate are ideal.

It would likely come under building regs as they can be a bit picky but as Mark said, it's pretty easy and in your situation I would go ahead and just do it.I'm a retired builder though so not saying you should. Up to you. :wink:

Bob

 

[Woody2Shoes]

Building Regs very definitely cover things like the ratio of cross-sectional area of hearth to CSA of flue (influences the ability to draw properly), ventilation, materials used, area (and thickness) of non-combustible hearth. I think also as you're doing structural work a building inspector would take an interest in any event. HETAS regs may also apply, depending on what appliance (if any) is installed in the fireplace. All that said, it's a fairly straightforward job, and if you're not planning on selling your house soon and you will have a working CO detector nearby then it's very tempting to just get on with it as said above. Cheers, W2S

Covered in AD J and others:

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/buildi ... documents/

 

[blackrodd]

As you say, W2S, There are several recognised general rules with fire openings, I have an old book and the flue to opening ratio, here's a link below.
Best thing was the wrap around boiler which replaced the old clay fireback really efficient in there day!
Rodders

http://www.masonryconstruction.com/Imag ... 374866.pdf

 

[No skills]

Thanks all so far!

More info from me..

The fire place is not to be used. Installing a wood burner for us is un-economical and wont be happening.

I'm going to open up the front of the fireplace for storage, the new lintel position would be right up just below ceiling height. The current opening is 29" wide, if I make the lintel/s the full width of the chimney and keep the opening width the same I will have a full brick (200mm odd) worth of baring on either side for the lintel to sit on.

One thing I don't know about is whats inside the chimney, do I need to support anything else inside (ie whatever lining is in there)??

Back to the building regs side.. if I issue a building notice for moving the lintel and show the inspector the manufacturers specs for the concrete lintel I'm fitting (assuming I have over specced it) will I get away without calculations?

If worse case and I have to get a calculation done how much should I expect to be paying a SE for doing them?

This is one of those jobs that's quite annoying really, I'm quite capable of doing the job once I have the information I need but I still have to go via building control I have a number of these coming up - front door and kitchen window (need to order them still), I've just done the back door and will do that on the same building notice as the front and window. I've also got soil pipe work to do which is easy (but nasty) work - again something that BC want to look at.
Sorry I'm moaning!! its the little things in life that annoy me :lol: :lol:

Any more help with the fireplace is well received!!

Cheers

 

[blackrodd]

You are a brave man! Personally I wouldn't go to the expense of making a cupboard or alcove out of a dirty smelly sooty fireplace and chimney, what size is the extra floor space and going to be?
If you have to do it and have a wooden floor, where the acrows and needles will go, get under the area and strut or support from below.and lay a double scaffold plank to spread the load over the joisting.
If there is a window you can get in and out of then I suggest you empty the room and tape up the doors all round as the dirt gets everywhere, get in and out through the window
You should treat the sooted area with a vinegar and water mix to stop the oils in the soot from burning through any plaster or dot and dab.
Regards Rodders

 

[kostello]

Thanks all so far!

More info from me..

Any more help with the fireplace is well received!!

Cheers

If you are going to be doing lots of things that need building control approval put them all on one application to save multiple application fees..

 

[Lons]

I doubt if you need the calcs but definitely the BCO will want to inspect. I mentioned earlier about looking to see if any upper floor joists are supported above the chimney - are they?
I agree with the comments about the worth of opening it just for a cupboard.
I did it for my son 2 years ago but it was part of a kitchen revamp and loads of other work which came under the same approval procedure. I opened his to accommodate a gas range cooker and extractor and it was a bloody awful job. I've opened a couple in the past so they could install woodburners and swore I wouldn't do it again but family is family. (hammer)

Bob

 

[No skills]

Every bit counts really. Our 2 living rooms downstairs are 12'x12' and the kitchen is roughly 10'x7'. For 3 full time family members and one part time (plus the dog!) It's a bit cramped and storage counts.

I will have to pull down a bit of the ceiling to see if there are any joists attached to the fire place, they run the other way but the last one might be attached.

 

[Lons]

Every bit counts really. Our 2 living rooms downstairs are 12'x12' and the kitchen is roughly 10'x7'. For 3 full time family members and one part time (plus the dog!) It's a bit cramped and storage counts.

I will have to pull down a bit of the ceiling to see if there are any joists attached to the fire place, they run the other way but the last one might be attached.

Doesn't matter if it's attached as long as the joists run parallel to the fireplace then it isn't carrying the load from the upstairs floor.

Even if it had been carrying the load as long as properly supported by the lintols then no problem. The only other thing to be very careful of is that the 200mm of wall each side you said would be there to support the lintols is structurally suitable. The BCO will look carefully at that for obvious reasons.

Bob

 

[blackrodd]

I see you're problem, space at least you won't end up surrounded with a lifetimes bric a bac!
You may have to lift up the floorboards above to see how and if any floor joists have been trimmed around the chimney,
and block the dust and smells from above, don't forget to vent the chimney at it's lowest point, where it's still a chimney and let out any damp air.
There may be a small concrete or slate slab cast in situ to ensure any fireplace using that , or a second companion flue
is safe from any timber joisting in that area.
Forgot to remind you to get a decent chimney sweep with a hoover to get the all the soot out that he can.
Google cleaning soot with vinegar, white vinegar is stronger and in you're case better for it's purpose, (neutralising).
I still say you will rue the day!!
All the very best with it.
Regards Rodders

 

[Phil Pascoe]

White vinegar is stronger? It may well not be - a lot of stuff sold by the gallon is marked "not suitable for pickling" which would suggest it isn't.

 

[blackrodd]

White vinegar is stronger? It may well not be - a lot of stuff sold by the gallon is marked "not suitable for pickling" which would suggest it isn't.

If you're a pickler, you're probably aware malt vinegar is natural, some "brown" vinegar is really acetic acid, and careful reading of mostly cheaper vinegar labels do state this.
Like most other folk, We read labels carefully and only buy malt vinegar and spice our own, it's easy to buy a gallon of acid!
I think I'm right in saying, White, or clear vinegar is acetic acid and water and I believe stronger.
Rodders

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Good luck with that. I knocked through a 2'6" random stone wall for a window, and we were still finding dust a year after - and that's with taping the doors up and without soot being involved.

 

[No skills]

I think there is a short section (4' or less) of joist either side of the chimney upstairs, cant say for certain without pulling plasterboard but I have a vague memory of the joists upstairs from removing a dead rat a few years ago :shock:

The 8" of width I mentioned is the same as what is supporting the current configuration but I take your point about how sound the brickwork is, if it's a crumbly mess (it's not) they might want it rebuilt.

I will certainly be cursing when/if I do this

I need to sort some photo hosting, tried to upload pictures but their too big and my patience is too small.

I'll be back...

 

[Lons]

I need to sort some photo hosting, tried to upload pictures but their too big and my patience is too small.

I'll be back...

loads of ways to reduce photo size. Some ways are quicker and several free progs available but if you just open the photo in paint, click resize, pixels and reduce the largest side to maybe 800 or 600 then save as a jpeg

 

[No skills]

err test?

http://s1077.photobucket.com/user/theru ... s.jpg.html

 

[blackrodd]

Good pics, a side shot giving a view of the sides would be helpful.
Have to say, that looks to be part of a very nice room!
Rodders