Finding employment

[HawkEye]

As we all know its difficult to find employment at the moment. I live in North London and I have emailed about 90-100 firms in the surrounding area.

I've also gone round and spoken to every joinery firm I can find in my local area, through directories and search engines, and have recieved negative responses.

I'm registered on CITB, who have not helped me at all. The representative keeps fobing me off. Everytime I speak to her she says there is something promising in my local area and says she will get back to me the following week, she never does. I follow it up and she informs me the placement has gone to someone else.

Things are getting really desperate for me now even though I'm nearing the end of my ACA level 3 in Bench joinery in July, I just cannot get a placement or a PLA (programme led apprentichip). I am going to start e-mailing all around the London area soon, even though I would rather not have to travel accross London if I can avoid it, but if it comes to that then I will do it.

I'm thinking about reforming my cover letter I send to firms to try and get replies, and maybe you guys could help me with this a little. My cover ltter as it stands :-

Hello, I'm a student at Stratford Building Cratfs College and I'm eagar to get on a PLA (programme led apprentice).

I am currently training for City and Guilds level 3 Advanced Construction Award in Bench Joinery. I'm looking for employment in the sector, and the firm that takes me on recieves three thousand pounds bare minimum from C&G, as is my understanding.

I need work experience in order to upgrade my ACA to an NVQ, and this may take as little as a few weeks, after which I will have enough work experience to upgrade the qualification. However I am also interested in employment aswell, and I am not just seeking a placement for the sake of the qualifcation.

I have a very active interest in carpentry and joinery, and I will work full time or part time. I have my own transport, my own tools, and I have been a UK resident my whole life. I'm 23 years old and live in Finchley ,North London.

If you have any placements available please consider hiring me. My mobile number is **********, and my e-mail address is *********. You can contact me on my mobile any time.

Kind Regards

(name here)


Is this ok? Could I do anything better? Your thoughts?

 

[matt]

Tough one.

I know nothing about the qualifications you're describing but I do know my sister's firm are laying people off right now. This, I suspect, will be true for a lot of firms as work starts to dwindle.

So... does NVQ make you a much more attractive proposition tan ACA? If it does, then you may do better to join a firm for a fixed period. They get the cash (and if they're nice they'll use it to pay you), you get the apprenticeship and, in theory, the qualification. They don't have to risk any overhead in the longer term.

I guess what I'm saying is that you might want to consider a proposal that is more commercially viable for the firm as they probably don't want someone who is looking to stay on but may accept some short-term help which is mutually beneficial.

I would get something more concrete on the money involved too. It's much better to say "You will get X" rather than "according to my understanding" which kind of abdicates any responsibility on your part and is potentially giving them the work to do to find out for sure what the deal is.

Hello,
I'm....
If you let me come and work for you for 3 months to get my NVQ qualification you will get £3000 (regardless of whether I qualify). Pay me £1000 per month and you will have got 3 months free labour and I will get my qualification.
Call me...
X

 

[StevieB]

This is not my field but I do read hundreds of letter for jobs when employing people so perhaps some of this may be relevant.

Firstly, never write a letter with the salutation 'hello'. Always use Dear Sir, or if feeling you need to be PC Dear Sir/Madam. If you know the name of the MD or boss then use that, or the name of the company eg Dear Joinery Firm.

Secondly, get yourself a CV typed up and include it. List your experience, what units you have covered on your course, possibly photos of work pieces and anything else that shows you in a good light, but keep it relevant to the job - they dont care if you help old ladies at the weekend or read Shakespear in your spare time.

Thirdly, state your desire to get an apprenticeship or job over your desire to upgrade your qualification. Bosses want to know what they will get from you workwise, they do not want the hassle of administering feedback to a college on your progress. You can always discuss this with them should you get an interview.

Fourthly, follow up letters with a phone call or personal visit. Its easy to slip a letter in the bin, much harder to put the phone down on you or shut the door in your face. Be personable, be presentable and sell yourself, but don't be pushy, arrogant or sound desperate even if you are! you might even consider this as your first line of attack and hand deliver a copy of your CV to anyone who is willing to talk to you. It costs more than a stamp but can be way more effective.

I wish you lots of luck, its a hard time at the moment. Also consider being flexible until you get some experience under your belt - fit kitchens, consider site work, shopfitting, anything to get your self some experience of using your tools.

Steve.

 

[thomvic]

Hawkeye

Having interviewed hundreds of job applicants over my career I can assure you you won't get better advice than that provided by Steve.

Don't get downhearted by rejection. Persistence pays off eventually. My son, now a senior manager in industry sent out over 700 applications before he got his first job as a graduate in 1993.

Richard

 

[RogerM]

Hawkeye - I was made redundant in 1992 in the last recession and I know what it's like trying to find work in this environment. The advice given by StevieB is absolutely spot on. My daughter chucked a job in the City to go to Oz last year and has just returned having been unable to find a job. She has been lucky enough to be offered her old job back, but before she received the offer, and when things were not looking hopeful, I gave her the following advice based on my own experience. I've amended it a bit to make it more relevant to your situation, but it should sit well with the advice given by StevieB.

a. This is a "cost-cutting" environment. When jobs become available there will be many potential "high calibre" applicants, and very often recruiters will be cut out of the loop. If there are 2 equally attractive applicants and one has come direct and the other through a recruitment consultant, the direct applicant will get the job to save the fee.

b. In normal times, 2 jobs out of 3 get filled without being advertised. In this environment that proportion is likely to be even higher - and you need to access these.

I have had 7 jobs in my working career. Not a single one of them was offered as a result of responding to an advert. All were as a result of networking and direct approaches. This stuff works!

c. Keep flexible. Apply for anything and everything that comes along, even if you don't think you'll get it. By not applying you make that a 100% certainty. The most important thing is to get in front of someone. It may well be that they will say that whilst you are not right for the job for which you have applied, they have something else coming up which may be of interest, in which case you will not be competing with 100s of others replying to an advert.

d. Once you have contacted all your network once, and approached every company you can think of once, start all over again! Do not fall in to the trap of thinking you can only contact them once - and in fact you should thank whoever you've spoken to and tell them that you will be in contact again in a few weeks. Again, the job I got during the last recession was as a result of my 3rd speculative contact with that company. Also try to get several names within the organisation and try them all.

The very best of luck to you in your search. There will be something out there with your name on it - but it may take a while to find.

 

[Steve Maskery]

Only 90-100? Sorry, but you are just at the start. I've no wish to be discouraging, really I don't, but the sad fact is that there simply are no jobs. I've lost count of the number of applications I've made. I'm not sure it's up to 700 yet, but it wouldn't surprise me if it were. I've had another rejection today, not even an interview, for a job that I know my application was filtered as "Strong".

I'm afraid there are no easy answers, we just have to keep plugging away and hope that someone recognizes our talents before we die.

I have a stinking cold today. If I'm really lucky it came from Mexico!
S

 

[HawkEye]

Very useful advice guys.

Today I've downloaded alot of pictures from my camera, I have pictures of almost everything I have made since starting college. So I may compile them into .rar format and send them along with the cover letter.

Hello,
I'm....
If you let me come and work for you for 3 months to get my NVQ qualification you will get £3000 (regardless of whether I qualify). Pay me £1000 per month and you will have got 3 months free labour and I will get my qualification.
Call me...
X


I will phone CITB and find out exactly what the employer recieves in funding, that's a good idea. I will try to under sell any auxillary or subsidary requirements that would be expected of the firm if they were to take me on a PLA.

I will try to avoid talking much about upgrading my existing qualifcation. That's obviously quite offputting in what it implies. I'll refer to it as a PLA instead

I will make those amendments mentioned to the cover letter. Pictures will be included. I will mention all my educational qualifications. I will mention the contents of the modules, i.e ERR, CITB H&S test, all the practical assignments.

I will take on board what has been said about who best to target.

I'm a little weary of including all my personal details in my C.V, and sending it off to just anyone. So I will stick to a watered down version of this over the e-mail, but in person I will include a longer version, and print off the pictures and include them.

Very sobering advice overall though, which is to be expected. It helps to know that there are others in the same boat.

 

[Steve Maskery]

Er, I'm not homophobic but I wouldn't end my letter with a kissy-kiss if I were you.....
S

 

[Ironballs]

Lots of good advice there, just to add make sure you spell check your letter/CV and if using a decent word processor then run it through the grammar checker too, it all helps.

I think the inclusion of pictures will help. It looks like you're already amending the content of your letter, but always think from the perspective of the employer, so remove anything that reads as "so I believe" or where you describe attaining a qualification but cannot say when it will be. Be precise, be concise, by all means talk about improving yourself through attainment of qualis but be clear about the cost (or lack of) to the employer. The last thing a company need is to take someone on who they perceive as learning and for whom they have to pay extra.

Good luck

Damian

 

[Doctor]

Its been mentioned before but the way I decided on my last employee was the fact he was the only one to ring me and ask whether I had received his application and then after the interview he rang me to see whether he had got the job.
I like the fact he made me believe he really wanted the job.

 

[BradNaylor]

the sad fact is that there simply are no jobs.

Steve,

I have no wish to be unkind but your situation doesn't really compare with Haweye's. He is young, enthusiastic, and is offering a potential employer the opportunity to try him out for three months at no real cost. Before long he will get the break he deserves.

Of course there are jobs out there. The recession is beginning to bite and there are fewer opportunities than there were a couple of years ago, but the country hasn't quite ground to a halt just yet.

I appreciate how dispiriting it must be dealing with the continual rejection; however if you come across in your job applications and interviews as the cynical middle-aged navel gazer you appear from your post above then your ongoing plight is hardly surprising.

I'm afraid it still mystifies me why you can't make a living from woodworking. The world (even Nottingham) is crying out for fitted MDF alcove units and the like - you've got a fully equipped workshop and you could do that kind of work in your sleep.

OK, so its not very glamorous but hey, it pays the bills! It also provides the foundation for a business making more interesting projects as they crop up - which they will.

I'm sorry if this seems a bit strong, but you should have seen the bits I edited out!

:lol:

Hawkeye,

I know its important to you, but I would place far less emphasis in your applications on the qualifications you are hoping to get. An employer couldn't give a toss about this; all he wants is someone who can do a good job and will fit in.

The worry is that a potential employer will see you as a 'carpet-bagger' who will take the opportunity to get their qualification and then move on.

Good luck to both of you.

Cheers
Brad

 

[rkchapman]

Another tip - be sure to spellcheck and proof read your application before you send it. The text you pasted in your first message is full of typos and mis-spellings which can create the impression of carelessness or not taking pride in your work:

Cratfs - should be Crafts
eagar - should be eager
recieves - should be receives
aswell - should be as well
qualifcation - should be qualification

Good luck with the job searching

 

[Chris Knight]

Hawkeye,

For goodness sake, don't expect a prospective employer to open a rar file! Chances are he won't know what it is and even if he does, why should he risk getting a virus from someone he doesn't know?

Use snail mail and real photos that will immediately grab his attention.

 

[Jenx]

Hi Hawkeye...

Firstly, good luck in your endeavours.

Couple of things to think about --

I've been at both sides of the 'interview desk', like some of the other guys here.
I tend to succeed, if I can get to the interview stage, and have just been headhunted, and handed my notice in to my existing employers just yesterday.

From an 'interviewer' perspective, and regarding the CV Document itself... 2x A4 Pages... no more.
Submit 'war & peace' and you'll bore the hind legs off the guy reading it... if you really 'cannot avoid' going beyond that, 2 1/2 pages as an absolute maximum. People ( unless they are an absolutely dedicated HR Professional ) are way too busy to read a 'book' ... and the HR Dept dont usually become involved until you're well down the path of getting a 'yes', so keep that CV brief, concise and effective.
Stay away from 'happy colours', stupid fonts etc... just be 'slick' in what you present.

Assuming you get to a 'face-to-face' soon ... you have to pin the guy to the deck, while you have the opportunity.
When the interview is almost done, and He (or 'they', if its a panel consultation ) get to the point of asking you 'Any questions you would like to ask' -- thats your chance to "nail it."..
Hit them with something along the lines of " Yes, - can I ask, have you any reservations about my ability to do what is required of the position ? ". and back it up with something like 'because we can address and overcome these now, whilst we are all here'.

This is very powerful.
What you are doing is a selling job. - selling yourself.
And 'selling' as a discipline, is about overcoming your potential buyer's 'objections'.
By adopting that kind of line of question . you are directly asking him ( them ) what their objections are.. and countering them on the spot.
-- Leave the interviewer(s) with little or no option other than to give you the job. They have no 'option' to deliberate for half an hour after you've gone, and formulate 'reasons not to take you' in their minds... you've batted those out of the park already. :wink:

Sounds simple.. but
Believe me, this works.
If I get to the interview stage.. I get the job.
It has worked many, many times .
Its psychology. The pyschology of "selling".. and it works.


Best of luck Buddy. :wink: :lol:

 

[OPJ]

...there simply are no jobs.

Sorry, Steve, but I have to disagree with this as well... There are still plenty of employers advertising and looking to take on new staff. Trouble is, most of those jobs on offer aren't in the least bit appealing to anyone out-of-work with some experience or qualifications. I mean, if you fancy scrubbing toilets for a few hours each work, there are plenty of opportunities out there for you!! :x :wink: That's partly why I'm still unemployed; I'm being too picky with the jobs that are on offer; I feel I'm "over-qualified" to do anything that even remotely involves customer service... :roll: I applied for one job recently and the guy told me he'd received over twenty-five applications in a single day! :shock:

HawkEye, best of luck to you in your search though, I don't think it will be easy and I couldn't confidently suggest that you are looking to find what you are looking for in today's climate. Most important thing of all though, don't give up!!

 

[BradNaylor]

I feel I'm "over-qualified" to do anything that even remotely involves customer service... :roll:

I'm sorry but this attitude baffles me.

Any job that is worthwhile involves 'customer service'. What about doctors, lawyers, accountants, architects etc etc etc ? They are all involved in 'customer service' - in fact it is their primary role!

Customers pay everybody's wages. If you don't serve them you don't get paid!

And nobody is 'over-qualified' for anything. Some people however, seem to have an over-inflated opinion of their own worth. A person's worth in monetry terms is exactly what someone is prepared to pay them.

Supply and demand...

Cheers
Brad

 

[Jenx]

Agree with Mr Naylor there, totally.

Everyone , in any organisation which received payment from an end-user / customer or whatever you would like to call it, is involved in customer service.

Just because within that given organisation, your role isn't front-line customer contact face-to-face, or on the phone or via e-mail or whatever, does not admonish you from being 'customer-focussed'.

Without that 'customer'.. the 'support roles' won't exist either.

And also - in any role within a company you have what carries the slightly 'twee' expression , 'internal customers' ... i.e. your colleagues.

Without the mindset that 'customer is king', you're piddling into the wind.

And in my humblest of views.. nobody is ever 'over qualified' for a job.
especially when you havent got one at that given point in time.
Cut your cloth according to circumstances at the preliminary stage.. an interview process is a two-way street, if YOU don't fancy it, you can walk away, should you feel its beneath you to take the role on.
I remember a lecture from a long time ago from someone... ALL WORK is Honourable, be it a refuse collector, or the Chairman of ICI..
And I could just eas easily take on being either. ... as could most people.
To state "I am over-qualified for x, y or z" may be in essence, true enough, but will filter through as perceived arrogance, and will be picked up on.
To use an old adage...
When life gives you lemons, you better get to making the lemonade.

Best of luck to all who are in this position currently.. I wish you well, obviously.

Sometimes you have to take a route that takes you sideways, or even backwards, to get to the destination you ultimately desire.
:wink:

 

[BradNaylor]

It's interesting that the only people who ever claim to be 'over-qualified' are unemployed!

I can understand that if you have a masters degree and are applying for a job at B&Q you may feel that it could count against you.

So surely you would just prepare several different CVs and send out the one most approriate to the job in question?

It doesn't strike me as being rocket science.

Cheers
Brad

 

[Jenx]

Exactly Brad ..
"Cut the cloth accroding to the circumstance at hand".

:wink:

 

[matt]

Too many people define themselves according to what they are or should be doing by way of employment. I've never really related my position in life etc to my job. That's not to say I'd be happy to any job but my enjoyment of a job is not related to status or pay.