Festool Saw Stop Table saw

[murphy]

Has anyone ever bought a new Table saw without a fence?, well I just paid a visit to Axminster store Sittingbourne to have a look at the Festool SawStop saw, and it did look good and solid, it had a mitre fence but no main fence, and when I asked where the fence was I was told that the fence came in the accessories pack? that this was just the basic saw for £2400, the accessories pack is another about £1240, which includes side table, rear table, sliding table and fence, but I only wanted the fence, I am not paying £1240 for the fence, I think this is stupid, it is like buying a new car only to find that the steering wheel is extra, I have some Festool tool since 2015 and they are still as good as new, but I will not be buying this saw, Rant over

 

[Distinterior]

Was it the TKS 80 saw that you were looking at...?
If so, I believe you can buy what Festool call a "Stopper" as an accessory......Here's a link to the item on their website.

https://www.festool.co.uk/accessory...s-and-attachments/575826---la-tks-80#Overview

 

[Jake]

I expect the fences are the same as for the CS70, in which case the mitre fence used at 0 degrees makes a passable rip fence (but not as good as the dedicated rip fence per Distinterior's post above). Difference is enough for me always to swap over (bar maybe a few times for one smaller rip).

 

[Cabinetman]

That seems a big shot in Festools own foot to me. Looked online here in the us and came across this, can’t get on festools site, don’t know why.

 

[Orraloon]

A fence is an essential part of any table saw not an optional extra. Walk away. Actually thinking more about they are selling a saw that is not fit for purpose so breaking consumer laws in most countries.
Regards
John

 

[Jake]

It has a fence.

 

[murphy]

Thank you all for your input, I am looking into all the advice you gave me, I suppose Festool could argue that the mitre gauge could double as a mini fence, as in Jake's photo, but I still think that selling it without the proper fence is wrong, and you are right Cabinetman, they have shot their foot here

 

[Cabinetman]

Nothing to stop you making your own, this is one I made to replace a horrible 3 feet long thing that came with my Minimax combination mc. Slides in and out and works just fine.

 

[Jake]

Thank you all for your input, I am looking into all the advice you gave me, I suppose Festool could argue that the mitre gauge could double as a mini fence, as in Jake's photo, but I still think that selling it without the proper fence is wrong, and you are right Cabinetman, they have shot their foot here

It'll be an ok rip fence. It's very rigid when all locked up - I hadn't thought of spinning it around onto that edge as I have a table extension on that lip. That'd make it a lot more rigid. As for being mini, it's the right length.

The full on rip fence will be better still and locks on the front and back edge and has a fine adjuster built in - better but I think Festool are right it's not necessary for a site saw.

 

[murphy]

Okay Jake, Thanks for the information

 

[murphy]

Nothing to stop you making your own, this is one I made to replace a horrible 3 feet long thing that came with my Minimax combination mc. Slides in and out and works just fine.

View attachment 190980View attachment 190979

Thank's Cabinetman, I just looked up Minimax combination mc. that would take up my whole workshop, if I could get in, you all seem to have massive workshops in the USA, I remember watching the New Yankee Workshop with Norm, that was some shop

 

[heimlaga]

I used my Stenberg KEV 600 combination machine in a single car garage 5,5 by 2,9 metres for years. I even made some doors and windows for customers in there.
I suggest you look for something else than Festool. A Wadkin-Bursgreen 10AGS doesn't take up more room that the Festool but it way more of a saw for way less money. We cannot cure the stupid. We aren't allowed to put them in Bedlam anymore. Though we can refuse to give them our money.

 

[TRITON]

Nothing to stop you making your own, this is one I made to replace a horrible 3 feet long thing that came with my Minimax combination mc

Ahh but you needed a fence to create this fence

I was initially looking at the festool, but the price is pretty extreme, and the saw accessories are pretty damn pricey too. For example the extension is £250
Two hundred and fifty quid for a bit of alloy is just milking it.

Then you have to contend with no mitre slots, so to employ jigs you need to rethink the entire set up. In fact the lack of slots mean youre pretty much stuck and tied in to buying festool add-ons, which are expensive.

As far as im concerned, the table saw is just for roughly cutting the big boards into little boards, which you then further refine on the surfacer,thicknesser,moulder and with handtools.

I suppose the festool table, and festool in general was born out of the shopfitting industry where it was 90% board material. As many of us use boards but also solid, something less precise(if thats the best term) is just as good.

 

[murphy]

I used my Stenberg KEV 600 combination machine in a single car garage 5,5 by 2,9 metres for years. I even made some doors and windows for customers in there.
I suggest you look for something else than Festool. A Wadkin-Bursgreen 10AGS doesn't take up more room that the Festool but it way more of a saw for way less money. We cannot cure the stupid. We aren't allowed to put them in Bedlam anymore. Though we can refuse to give them our money.

Thank's heimlaga, I just had a look at a Wadkin-Bursgreen 10AGS, and there is no way I could get that in my workshop, and get it through house first, and the cost is a bit more than Festool, no doubt is is an excellent saw, but not for me, I have been looking around for the side table and fence for the sawstop, and have found some second hand stuff at a reasonable price
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12654753...5338365712&toolid=20006&customid=EB272738118&

 

[Sideways]

Serious question. What are you going to cut with it ?
If so tight for space, what do you need to cut that a premium MFT, tracksaw and Benchdogs gear can't cope with better ?
If you need to rip solid wood, for which an MFT isn't a good solution, what sizes and lengths ?

 

[murphy]

Serious question. What are you going to cut with it ?
If so tight for space, what do you need to cut that a premium MFT, tracksaw and Benchdogs gear can't cope with better ?
If you need to rip solid wood, for which an MFT isn't a good solution, what sizes and lengths ?

Thank you Sideways, I do rip a lot of solid wood up to 50mm thick and 1 meter and more in length, I already have the MTF and track saw which I use quite a lot for sheet work which is not in my workshop, I have decided to go with the Festool sawstop, and will be selling some other stuff that I seldom use to offset the cost

 

[heimlaga]

Thank's heimlaga, I just had a look at a Wadkin-Bursgreen 10AGS, and there is no way I could get that in my workshop, and get it through house first, and the cost is a bit more than Festool, no doubt is is an excellent saw, but not for me, I have been looking around for the side table and fence for the sawstop, and have found some second hand stuff at a reasonable price
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12654753...5338365712&toolid=20006&customid=EB272738118&

That saw was misslabeled. Certainly not a 10" AGS. That one seems larger whatever it is. And it has some long fence bars I haven't seen before. And an exorbitant price I certainly haven't seen before.
A 10" AGS or an equivalent Ejca L18 or Rapid generally goes for between 300 and 1800 euros secondhand depending on condition on the European mainland. Sometimes even cheaper in England. A Festool saw usually costs more than that.
However if a Festool is what you can squeeze in you are forced to pay up and make do.

 

[Sideways]

Thank you Sideways, I do rip a lot of solid wood up to 50mm thick and 1 meter and more in length, I already have the MTF and track saw which I use quite a lot for sheet work which is not in my workshop, I have decided to go with the Festool sawstop, and will be selling some other stuff that I seldom use to offset the cost

Cheers.
The one thing that would still be concerning me is the Festool's use - I think - of a universal motor. Just too noisy.
For the huge saving in cost, I would even consider a nice clean used Kity 8" tablesaw and make an outfeed extension for it. 1100W induction motor and cast alloy top is quite competent at upto 2" rips and they can be bought for £200-300
The rip fences are not bad and they have a mitre slot....

 

[JimSmith1969]

Bro, I get you, that's pretty frustrating! It’s like showing up for a hangi and being told the meat’s extra. Festool makes solid gear, no doubt about it, but they definitely charge a premium for those extras. A table saw without a fence feels like a BBQ without the grill – the main thing’s missing!

I’ve had my fair share of run-ins with tool companies doing this kind of thing, and it can be a real downer, especially when you just need one part. A fence is critical for accuracy, and paying an extra £1240 just to get the whole package when you only need the fence? Nah, not worth it, cuz.

Honestly, for that kind of cash, you could find a good aftermarket fence that’ll fit the saw or even go with another brand that gives you the basics without trying to upsell you the world. Festool makes great tools, but they’ve got their fair share of quirks like this. My advice? Keep looking, or hit up some local woodworking forums – sometimes people part with accessories like fences, so you might score a deal.

 

[murphy]

Well I shopped around for a few days and I think I got what I want, Axminster wanted £2400 for the basic saw, but I managed to get the basic saw+the full fence+ the side extension (which is new and unused but sold as second hand) for £2500 so that is much better than the Axminster price
so with the side extension I can cut up to 680mm wide, it is still very expensive, but I feel as if I got some sort of a deal?