Festool parallel guides ?.

[Distinterior]

These are going to be my last comments in this thread Triton.....The Festool parallel guides are not " clamps" and are never meant to be...They are NOT the same thing as the TSO guide rail squares........You cannot use just 1 of the parallel guides instead of a TSO rail square,..it just wont work accurately....
The "Stops" are what make the parallel guides accurate.

Good luck.

 

[MikeK]

@TRITON, I have what I think is a well equipped wood shop, complete with a Minimax SC2C sliding saw, but wanted to use the TS 55 tracksaw for this project. All pieces were easily cut in one day from full sheets, and the longest delay to get to this point was waiting for the two coats of undercoat and two coats of paint to dry.

All of the plywood and MDF for the three-bay basement sink cabinet were cut with the TS 55, TSO parallel rails, TSO rail square, Domino DF 500, OF 1010 router, PS 300 jigsaw, ETS EC 150 ROS, and KS 120 miter saw. I'm still waiting on the Blum hinges so I can attach the doors, but finished the plumbing for the water and lift pump on Wednesday. The sewage drain in my mostly below grade basement is a meter higher than the bottom of the sink, so I needed the pump. I still have to attach the splash guard on the countertop where it meets the wall and attach the edge banding on the ends of the countertop, but the sink if fully functional and I now have running hot and cold water in the basement.

I ripped the full sheets of plywood and MDF in my garage so I could carry them to the basement by myself. Each of the three cabinet carcass is 18mm plywood, the drawer sides and ends are 12mm plywood, the drawer bottoms are 6mm plywood, the two cabinet bottoms are 12mm plywood, and the drawer faces and doors are 18mm MDF. I had the full sheet of MDF for another project; otherwise, I would have used 15mm MDF.

The drawer sides and ends are 98mm tall, and it was easy to set up the parallel guides on the FS 3000/2 rail for repeated cuts until I had all of the 2500mm long strips to take to the mitersaw. Likewise, the drawer faces, and the false front in the sink bay were 126mm wide MDF strips that were cut to length on the mitersaw. The eight bay side panels were the easiest to cut using the parallel guides and the rail square on the FS 1400/2 rail.

I was tempted to use SC2C or the DashBoard and fixed fence setup on my MFT-style worktable to cut the sheets and the router table to round over the drawer faces and doors, but this was a proof of concept project to see if I could make cabinets with what I could easily haul in my truck. Aside from the FS 3000/2 rail, the tools I used would easily fit in my truck, with most of them in the cabin. The CTL 26E vacuum, with attached Dust Deputy cyclone, would be in the bed of the truck with the pair of FS 1400/2 rails I would use instead of the FS 3000/2.

 

[Lazurus]

 

[sometimewoodworker]

Attach one guide to the rail. I have no doubts that that single guide isnt exactly at right angles to the rail, and if i were to press it to the side of a board, it would be as square as squareness gets. I dont see something coming from festool as being anything other than perfectly square.

That only applies if you have squared the board first, a step I don’t bother with as it is not required

Place the other and measure the distance top and bottom i believe they will be parallel to each other- because if they weren't, then they wouldn't call them 'parallel guides' would they

If you look above there is no need for them to be accurate with the markings as the end stops guarantee equal distances, however part of the initial setup is to adjust the tool so that they are

I really dont believe that festool would make an attachment that when fixed on isnt going to be square and parallel. Sure it might be out by 0.5 or less of a mill, but that type of accuracy is acceptable on a kitchen door or in fact just about anything we can make furniture wise.

Festool does not guarantee squareness. you add the differences together it becomes easier and easier to notice. For a 1 off cut it doesn’t matter, when you have a hundred it rather does.

Im removing the cut depth stops, because the board is 8' long, and those stops are limited to 650mm(650mm wasnt it ?).

No with slight modification it is 960mm /950mm

the rest of the setup is redundant if your pieces are under 960mm /950mm

I think we have to be honest and admit that if we had the space and the cash that the sliding table panel saw is unbeatable. Set the stop and just run your your sheet through to get as many identical parts as you want without any issues of squareness. But even with the cash unless you have the space then the tracksaw is going to be your best option for sheet goods and as said

but then what, you need a railsquare to cut the other two sides square to the two parallel sides?

no not often, but sometimes yes, my SCMS is usually big enough to square one end then the parallel guide work from the square end.

As you say (and so did I) if you have the big/huge machines the FS-PA have little benefit. If you don’t and don’t have access to a cutting service the parallel guides are the absolute winner.

@TRITON will continue to do things his way, I will continue to use the FS-PA as it was designed to be used. He will take more time with his setup. I will continue to take less time.

 

[aforjeh]

No it isn’t
View attachment 140036
this is not a square and is virtually useless
View attachment 140034
this is a square

View attachment 140035
this is the extremely useful setup
View attachment 140038
For an accurate 450mm cut
as you can see the there is no need for the sides to be close or even the same distance apart
View attachment 140039
this is the guarantee of accuracy
And this is how you can be sure that they are calibrated View attachment 140040

What’s the purpose of those Yale keys on your parallel guides? Or does everyone have those but me?

 

[sometimewoodworker]

What’s the purpose of those Yale keys on your parallel guides? Or does everyone have those but me?

The complete information is in post #37 click the link there, but the reasons are self evident in the pictures. They are not essential but are very useful IMHO

 

[Spectric]

Can we summarise or condense all this into a few straight bullet points like:

1) Parallel guides locate the track a set distance parallel to a given face.
2) The two parallel faces may not be square to the other two sides.
3) There main purpose is in locating the track and not fixing it down.
4) With parallel guides you still need a means to square the other sides.
5) Rail squares produce 90° cuts but cannot cut multiple pieces from a sheet.

I would say that ideally you want both the parallel guides and a rail square then you have covered everything. I think you can use the rail square for long cuts but clamp it which then makes the parallel guides a faster option.

Parallel guides v Rail square

TSO parallel guides



A look at various rail squares An overview of track/rail square options

This was interesting reading, a part about the TSO parallel guides sit on top of the workpiece whilst the Festool ones need support from below, this is where I suppose the keys are useful !

https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/...festool-parallel-guide-vs-tso-parallel-guide/
Reading this helps to decide if you actually need parallel guides Tracksaw Parallel Guides

" Think you misunderstood my post. I have a track saw for many years and use it all the time. My point was about the parallel guides. I can see them being useful occasionally. But like I said you would only use them when ripping the exact same size board over and over. Otherwise you just measure and mark and lay your track down and cut. Usually when I'm using my track saw I'm not ripping all the boards the same size. I'm cutting up sheet goods into smaller pieces and usually those pieces are all different sizes. So parallel guides wouldn't help. I'm sure they come in handy once in a while and if you have an extra 200 bucks laying around then great. I was just saying to the OP who doesnt have a track saw yet that personally I who uses my track saw all the time wouldn't use parallel guides much at all. And trust me when I say it doesnt take much for me to buy a tool. "

I think there are so many ways to achieve the same end result that no one can be right or wrong, it is just the means to get there that is so varied.

 

[sometimewoodworker]

Can we summarise or condense all this into a few straight bullet points like:

1) Parallel guides locate the track a set distance parallel to a given face.
2) The two parallel faces may not be square to the other two sides.
3) There main purpose is in locating the track and not fixing it down.
4) With parallel guides you still need a means to square the other sides.
5) Rail squares produce 90° cuts but cannot cut multiple pieces from a sheet.

I would say that ideally you want both the parallel guides and a rail square then you have covered everything. I think you can use the rail square for long cuts but clamp it which then makes the parallel guides a faster option.1

1) absolutely
2) absolutely
3) yes
4) one end, yes but then you can use the parallel guides from that end.
5) yes but the longer the cut the greater the chances of it not being square, so on really long cuts a couple of pence marks are a better choice.

6) yes I have both, but see 5) above for why a rail square is a poor choice for long cuts.

 

[Spectric]

Thinking about the rail square over long distances as in 5 above, it is simple geometry if you really stop and think. So if just doing a single cut over a long length then just use marks and align. That is how I have been doing my cuts as I have the rail square but no parallel guides and will often just mark and align, then square to sort the ends to length but I am in no rush and take it leisurely so not after speed.

 

[TRITON]

@TRITON will continue to do things his way, I will continue to use the FS-PA as it was designed to be used. He will take more time with his setup. I will continue to take less time.

I started the thread for advice, not to have your opinion foisted on to me.
So far as im concerned this is unwelcome, and i think i'd be happier if you refrained from answering any further.

 

[sometimewoodworker]

I started the thread for advice, not to have your opinion foisted on to me.
So far as im concerned this is unwelcome, and i think i'd be happier if you refrained from answering any further.

• You are either a new owner or a non owner, since the 17th of this month.
• You are suggesting using the guides in a way that has proved to give non parallel cuts.
• You are suggesting that they are right angle guides when they are not, if they were then Festool would certainly advertise them as such and increase sales.​
• By not using the stops that are the way parallel cuts are guaranteed you would be better of not using the guides at all, but you are welcome to spend £200 for 2 rulers​
• You are a very experienced woodworker who is completely disregarding information from every experienced guides user who has posted as well as Festool themselves.​

You are welcome to use any tool in any way you like but you can expect other users of that tool to let you know the correct, or better way to use it if you post wrong information on a public forum.
You can use a Mitutoyo Micrometer as a hammer but can expect to be corrected if you suggest that.

 

[sometimewoodworker]

For what it’s worth, today there are quite a few different systems to choose from. Here is a list of a few.

When I bought mine there was only 1 option which was the Festool one, it has failings most of them are addressed by the modifications I made and referenced above, influenced by members of the festoolownersgroup.com (FOG)

if I were starting today I would have a much harder job deciding which set to buy though living where I do my choices are rather limited.

Certainly the lay on top systems are better for wider pieces but nothing I’ve seen matches the Festool system for anything narrow.
All my French cleats have been ripped on the system (probably 100 metres at the moment), the cuts being about 22mm at 45degrees and 42mm all x 2440mm there are certainly other ways to make those cuts specially if you have a table saw where the blade can be angled and has a sliding table. Lacking the TS the Festool guides were the answer I don’t know if any other system has that capability.

For many things related to Festool products the FOG is an excellent resource though since the sale to Festool USA it may be a little less good than it was, however as far as I’ve seen there is little censorship though I’m a much less frequent visitor today.

https://www.woodpeck.com/parallel-guide-system.htmlhttps://tsoproducts.com/tso-parallel-guide-system/https://www.senecawoodworking.com/p...for-incra-t-track-plus?variant=32178423005255https://benchdogs.co.uk/collections/parallel-guide-systemToolCurve Parallel Guides for Festool Guide Rails and Track Saws | eBay (needs rails from Incra)
https://fctools.co.uk/product/parallel-guide/https://ffx.co.uk/Product/Get/Festool-495717-Fs-Pa-4014549105276-Fs-2-Parallel-Side-FenceFestool 495718 Guide extension - FS-PA-VL/