Fallacy, ever tried to get a biscuit joint apart once set, normally pulls the timber apart, also try shearing a biscuit.
Festool domino: benefits + price
- Thread starter Mjward
- Start date
Help Support UKworkshop.co.uk:
I’m not sure either of those things prove joint strength do they? I’d have trouble pulling a glued joint apart (with decent glue) and can absolutely snap a biscuit if bending from the short ends. Snapping it across the length is more to do with the lack of leverage I would think (forgetting the fact that in a joint it would be swollen and hardened with glue so it’s doubly a moot point)
All tests I’ve seen online show biscuits to add no strength at all. If you’ve done tests yourself or can point me to any that would say otherwise I’d be delighted.
Phil Pascoe
Established Member
All the biscuits I've ever used have been laminated - no way would you snap them easily.
The one I just snapped by hand was a Trend No. 20 (as I say, it was across the short span rather than the length partly I would imagine due to extra leverage) but as I say, I’m not sure whether you can snap something by hand proves anything when anything I’ve seen that is an actual test shows them not adding strength.
As I say, I’d love it if they did as I already have a Biscuit Jointer but I’ve not seen anything that proves they do.
As I say, I’d love it if they did as I already have a Biscuit Jointer but I’ve not seen anything that proves they do.
sams93
Established Member
I bought my DF500 with the systainer of dominos together for £400 used. It was a great deal, but I purchased it on the basis that I could sell it for the same value if it turned out I didn't use it enough to justify it.
I buy most of my stuff second hand, the advantage being that the second hand value generally stays static, and so I know that I can at any point sell the stuff for the same ish price I bought at. The other element of the justification is that I can afford far better build quality second hand items than I can new, and so whilst occasionally I might need to replace a component etc, I benefit overall from the better quality tools and machines at a price I can afford.
I buy most of my stuff second hand, the advantage being that the second hand value generally stays static, and so I know that I can at any point sell the stuff for the same ish price I bought at. The other element of the justification is that I can afford far better build quality second hand items than I can new, and so whilst occasionally I might need to replace a component etc, I benefit overall from the better quality tools and machines at a price I can afford.
In other news, it is very funny that this thread reflects so many I have read on other forums when researching biscuits and other forms of connector. Any time anyone mentions a Domino it's civil for a bit then eventually ends up in a bit of a disagreement about dowels, biscuits or pocket-holes.
'Grrrrr!!! You stupid fellow woodworker who has the same relatively niche hobby as me! Your opinion on method of joining two bits of wood, all of which will probably work as well as each other in the non-life or death circumstances we are all using them for to use up the finite minutes we have on the earth disagrees a bit with mine! Damn your eyes man, damn your eyes!'
'Grrrrr!!! You stupid fellow woodworker who has the same relatively niche hobby as me! Your opinion on method of joining two bits of wood, all of which will probably work as well as each other in the non-life or death circumstances we are all using them for to use up the finite minutes we have on the earth disagrees a bit with mine! Damn your eyes man, damn your eyes!'
scooby
Established Member
I got a df500 and the sustainer with dominos/cutters a while ago. My day job is a joiner but the domino is mainly used at home for hobby woodwork. Its definitely expensive but I’ve not regretted it one bit and can say with 99% certainty I won’t be selling It, And that’s from someone who has no qualms about selling/replacing things.
I’m not rolling in cash by any means but what made the decision easier for me is I’ve spent way, way more on bikes and photography stuff (some of the photo stuff I instantly regretted). The no quibble 30 day return really helped. After 5 minutes, I knew I wasn’t returning.
I’m not rolling in cash by any means but what made the decision easier for me is I’ve spent way, way more on bikes and photography stuff (some of the photo stuff I instantly regretted). The no quibble 30 day return really helped. After 5 minutes, I knew I wasn’t returning.
Glad you like it. It's funny though isn't it that as far as I can tell, part of what makes it good (and makes all the 'nearly but not quite a Domino' Aliexpress machines be left wanting) are relatively simple touches like the pins to allow for quick referencing off an edge (which Peters jig incidentally does have). Its not mechanically complex or expensive to design in, but most of the competitors don't have them
What is really needed is a hole that can accept a rod, something along the lines of how a router fence is attached which would be far more beneficial in alignment especially if you had something like these but again with the hole to fit on the rod.
Terry - Somerset
Established Member
I assume a biscuit is relatively easy to bend and break separate from the joint as there is no limit to the forcing angle.
Once glued into a joint the any bending angle will normally be very limited. To break the biscuit then relies upon sufficient tension being applied to tear the biscuit.
Once glued into a joint the any bending angle will normally be very limited. To break the biscuit then relies upon sufficient tension being applied to tear the biscuit.
The force required will be a shearing action so for assembling narrow boards to make a larger one as for a table then there is nothing wrong with a biscuit, once glued and clamped then once set it is not going anywhere. It all comes down to the right joint for the application rather than one method does all.
Peter Millard has a 10 minute workshop where he just used glue on a MDF side table (if I remember correctly what he made) that he tested to destruction. Amazing what just glue held. He had to jump up and down on it to get it to yield.
I’ve tested proper Lamello biscuits which are compressed beach in joints. The wood broke not the biscuit. Overdone the same with 8mm dowels same result. For me, where the m not using M/T joints a biscuit or dowel ate more than adequate. If the wood yields before the joint you can’t get any better.
Having said all that, I am looking for a secondhand hood value Domino 500….,just because
I’ve tested proper Lamello biscuits which are compressed beach in joints. The wood broke not the biscuit. Overdone the same with 8mm dowels same result. For me, where the m not using M/T joints a biscuit or dowel ate more than adequate. If the wood yields before the joint you can’t get any better.
Having said all that, I am looking for a secondhand hood value Domino 500….,just because
That is because most Domino fans do not use reality to test biscuits, when would a biscuit in place have a snapping action on the short edge as your test, my original post was about shear not a bending moment, I will agree that the Domino is a far better joint, but my point is biscuits have an equally if not more frequently used place in woodworking.
Completely agree with everything you've said. I didn't test anything, someone asked 'have you tried snapping one' I reported back that you can, with the caveat that it wasn't along the line you are usually applying force. I'm no Domino fan as such, all I'm saying is that from all things I've seen that are vaguely a test, Dominos add strength (as well as helping with alignment) , biscuits don't. That's not saying biscuits don't have a place.
(Incidentally, I absolutely assumed they would add strength, because regardless of their inherent shear strength etc. the simple fact of them spreading the glue deeper in to the wood with a wider surface area seemed like an obvious strengthener. I've been surprised that online tests don't seem to agree.)
Last edited:
Surprising what you can prove if you have an agenda.
The biscuit has been around a long time, in the right joint then I think it is better than a domino or dowel. For joining edge to edge then it gives the alignment and I would have thought the strength was in the glue joint once cured.
Ah damn it! Have I been conned by shills for Big Domino?Surprising what you can prove if you have an agenda.
Again?
I really should learn. Last time I ended up with some outdoor games that are entirely inappropriate for the size of my garden.
Shopfitting have been using biscuit jointers for decades before festool released their loose tenon machine. Lamello was the kit to have and that was the pinnacle of the spec at the time, and not cheap. Currently their top tool is £1300
I think what we have to keep in mind, is loose tenon and biscuit are two different types of joint. You'll probably find biscuit was more attuned towards board material, whereas festool domino is probably more aligned with solid timber.
I've been using a biscuit jointer on boards and solid for years. and TBH honest I would love to get a domino because it is a strong joint. It isnt more accurate, or biscuit isnt a less secure joint, both are very good, only I think with domino it make a smaller cut so its better on smaller components.
Domino you can easily produce mortise and tenon joints without the F&^@$* pain in the %$@£&SE faff about M&T joints take to cut.
This
Im selling the big extractor i recently got, which will stick 400 in the kitty. If I can flog off some bike stuff for another 400 I'll spend the released funds on a domino jointer.
I mean, its flash innit, All pro furniture makers must have a festool domino jointer, or the other makers will be whispering behind your back.
Last edited:
Westage
New member
The DF500 is a great choice for your projects, especially working with 18mm panels. That price does seem like a bargain, considering the inclusion of a sustainer of dominos. As for its benefits, aside from speeding up assembly, the domino joiner offers remarkable strength and precision, making it ideal for building sturdy bookcases and display units.
Finally pulled the trigger 
got accessories too as most seemed like they would be useful near term. Bought new in the end. Thanks all for your help on this, currently in a cast but hopefully can have a play in a few weeks
got accessories too as most seemed like they would be useful near term. Bought new in the end. Thanks all for your help on this, currently in a cast but hopefully can have a play in a few weeks
