Walney Col
Established Member
That charger would run the motor I showed you fine albeit not at the motors predicted top speed (which I personally found to be a bit fast anyway).
Col.
Col.
Feed rollers for drum sander
- Thread starter murphy
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Thank's again Col
I don't think the loss of speed will be a problem as long as there is enough torque, I may even have to reduce the speed further with a pulley, I need to find a 8mm pulley to fit that motor first and then do a trial run using the speed controller, I am using 19mm steel round bar for the feed rollers, I am not to sure yet what diamater to make them , more trial and error, or what to cover them with - velcro with sandpaper like the main drum or use rubber, they will be spring loaded, I have emailed a company that make conveyer rubber covered rollers and should have a reply Tomorrow,
Pat
I don't think the loss of speed will be a problem as long as there is enough torque, I may even have to reduce the speed further with a pulley, I need to find a 8mm pulley to fit that motor first and then do a trial run using the speed controller, I am using 19mm steel round bar for the feed rollers, I am not to sure yet what diamater to make them , more trial and error, or what to cover them with - velcro with sandpaper like the main drum or use rubber, they will be spring loaded, I have emailed a company that make conveyer rubber covered rollers and should have a reply Tomorrow,
Pat
sploo
Somewhat extinguished member
Be aware that gearing (or pulleys) also has an affect on torque; gearing an input down by 2:1 results in a 2x torque amplification at the output (ignoring real-world efficiency losses).murphy":3h7u0yqr said:
However, halving the speed of a single phase motor (I believe usually by chopping the wave for an AC motor or pulsing [switch mode] for a DC motor) will reduce the power, and with it the torque.
Three phase with a VFD is better, as the AC wave changes frequency (so you get the full wave driving the motor) - but that's perhaps overkill here.
Point being: there will be a sweet spot of a moderate rpm (i.e. moderately loud), moderate wattage motor that can be geared down for your desired output rpm and necessary torque - so don't think of gearing (or pulleys) as an unfortunate evil; it can be your friend.
Thank's for that information Sploo
I have just got the motor ( it works great thank's Colin) and have to do some trial runs yet, I should get the speed controller today, getting a v pulley for this motor is not so easy as it's a 8mm shaft and I am having trouble getting one online, I can get 3D printer pulleys which are 8mm bore and require a different grooved belt but then I can't find a pulley with 19mm bore to match, still working on that, I have decided to use 19mm steel bar for the feed rollers and have covered them with self adhesive velcro and velcro sandpaper like the main drum, I wanted to keep them small to give acess to the main drum for changing the sandpaper, the drum is a 5 inch x 20 inch steel drum I got on ebay a few years ago, I am putting springs in as shown in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IH_w6zQcvS4 the torque and speed of the motor without any pulleys is fine, so it will have to be trial and error when I find some pulley's
I have just got the motor ( it works great thank's Colin) and have to do some trial runs yet, I should get the speed controller today, getting a v pulley for this motor is not so easy as it's a 8mm shaft and I am having trouble getting one online, I can get 3D printer pulleys which are 8mm bore and require a different grooved belt but then I can't find a pulley with 19mm bore to match, still working on that, I have decided to use 19mm steel bar for the feed rollers and have covered them with self adhesive velcro and velcro sandpaper like the main drum, I wanted to keep them small to give acess to the main drum for changing the sandpaper, the drum is a 5 inch x 20 inch steel drum I got on ebay a few years ago, I am putting springs in as shown in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IH_w6zQcvS4 the torque and speed of the motor without any pulleys is fine, so it will have to be trial and error when I find some pulley's
I have wired up the motor and battery charger for a trial run and unfortunately the motor has nowhere near enough torque to cope with the 2 feed rollers alone, without feeding any wood, so it will have to be an AC motor, as I said before I have a spare motor on an old Ferm scrool saw which is 90watt and was planning on using that, with this- http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/products/7480832/ does anyone know if this will work, it says suitable for up to 4kw but I am not sure if the motor is induction or brush, or if that matters, this is some of the info they sent me -DESCRIPTION
These variable phase-angle regulators are robust, compact and enclosed units for 230V or 110V up to 15A single phase
mains driven inductive loads, such as induction motors, fans and pumps. They give fully adjustable voltage outputs from
zero to maximum.
These variable phase-angle regulators are robust, compact and enclosed units for 230V or 110V up to 15A single phase
mains driven inductive loads, such as induction motors, fans and pumps. They give fully adjustable voltage outputs from
zero to maximum.
I tried that and it did not work either, and yet there are people selling these speed controllers which do not work, or am I missing something, so I emailed Haydock converters who supplied a new 2hp motor for my lathe with a speed genie a few years ago, which works great, a bit expensive but it works, this is part of the reply I got-- It is near impossible to achieve variable speed with single phase motors, the design of the motor windings mean it is hard to stop the motor from stalling and also the
current ends up rising to very high levels.
We can make you a similar sort of set up if you wish, from single phase we can go from 0.2kw up to 2.2kW.
so at least now I know, I am waiting for them to get back to me with a price.
I also have been looking at used treadmills on E bay, I need to do some more research on that
current ends up rising to very high levels.
We can make you a similar sort of set up if you wish, from single phase we can go from 0.2kw up to 2.2kW.
so at least now I know, I am waiting for them to get back to me with a price.
I also have been looking at used treadmills on E bay, I need to do some more research on that
Walney Col
Established Member
Wow. That does surprise me. Any chance of you uploading photos or your rollers and drive train? I've just uploaded a short video of the same motor running on 24v and it bags of torque and speed for my purposes without even getting to a 30% duty cycle.murphy":loc8g1u5 said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1PlkP_NnKI&t=2s
Col.
Thank's Col
Great work on the router lathe and the video's, have you got your workshop in your living room, I will try and upload some photos later today, what are you using to get 24v supply and what is the 30% duty cycle, I am using a 12v battery charger, the prices of variable speed motors and speed genie from Hadock converters are 0.5hp=£355 and 1hp=£450 they are a bit expensive, but I have one on my lathe and it works great, I am not sure if the treadmill motors idea and speed control would work it might be more electronic work than I can handle
Great work on the router lathe and the video's, have you got your workshop in your living room, I will try and upload some photos later today, what are you using to get 24v supply and what is the 30% duty cycle, I am using a 12v battery charger, the prices of variable speed motors and speed genie from Hadock converters are 0.5hp=£355 and 1hp=£450 they are a bit expensive, but I have one on my lathe and it works great, I am not sure if the treadmill motors idea and speed control would work it might be more electronic work than I can handle
Walney Col
Established Member
Hi Murphy.
I have a small shed I use a lot in summer but my health is such that even getting out to it is a daunting prospect so yes, the boss is letting me do most of it in the house.
This is the 24v power supply I'm using... £11.95 including postage from ebay:-
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/252561034566? ... EBIDX%3AIT
A DC motor speed controller always drives the motor at it's maximum voltage but that voltage is continually flicked on and off to vary the speed the motor turns at. The 30% duty cycle I referred to means that (in that case) the motor was off for 70% of the time and on for only 30% of the time. The on/off sequence occours many (MANY) times per second and turning the duty cycle up simply shortens the length of time it's turned OFF for to (eventually) zero... while turning it down shortens the length of time it's turned ON for to (eventually) zero.
The controllers for DC treadmill motors do exactly the same thing using the same method and are no more difficult to wire up than the low voltage ones we've been playing with. The biggest problem being that with higher voltage and current comes higher cost and a much higher risk of damage or injury if anything goes badly wrong.
Hope that all helps.
Col.
I have a small shed I use a lot in summer but my health is such that even getting out to it is a daunting prospect so yes, the boss is letting me do most of it in the house.
This is the 24v power supply I'm using... £11.95 including postage from ebay:-
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/252561034566? ... EBIDX%3AIT
A DC motor speed controller always drives the motor at it's maximum voltage but that voltage is continually flicked on and off to vary the speed the motor turns at. The 30% duty cycle I referred to means that (in that case) the motor was off for 70% of the time and on for only 30% of the time. The on/off sequence occours many (MANY) times per second and turning the duty cycle up simply shortens the length of time it's turned OFF for to (eventually) zero... while turning it down shortens the length of time it's turned ON for to (eventually) zero.
The controllers for DC treadmill motors do exactly the same thing using the same method and are no more difficult to wire up than the low voltage ones we've been playing with. The biggest problem being that with higher voltage and current comes higher cost and a much higher risk of damage or injury if anything goes badly wrong.
Hope that all helps.
Col.
Thank's Col
I might as well get that 24v power supply as it is so cheap, I doubt if it will do what want but I will use it for something else, an electrician friend has sent me this link as he has been looking for a motor for me http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ELECTRIC-MOTO ... B#viTabs_0 what do you think of that.
I am enclosing a few photos so you get an idea of what I am doing, the rollers are spring loaded and move freely, but the 12v supply will not even turn one on its own, I think I will replace the pulleys and belt with sprockets and chain, the bearings are slightly bigger than the shaft collars so the whole lot moves freely, the 2 bolt heads you can see in the center are for bolting the main sanding drum which is 5" x 20" drum
I might as well get that 24v power supply as it is so cheap, I doubt if it will do what want but I will use it for something else, an electrician friend has sent me this link as he has been looking for a motor for me http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ELECTRIC-MOTO ... B#viTabs_0 what do you think of that.
I am enclosing a few photos so you get an idea of what I am doing, the rollers are spring loaded and move freely, but the 12v supply will not even turn one on its own, I think I will replace the pulleys and belt with sprockets and chain, the bearings are slightly bigger than the shaft collars so the whole lot moves freely, the 2 bolt heads you can see in the center are for bolting the main sanding drum which is 5" x 20" drum
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Walney Col
Established Member
I'd describe the motor you linked to as overkill but there can't be any doubt that it'd definately do what you want, and for what it is the price seems reasonable too.
Regarding your setup I'd say that those tiny pulleys and clunky belts (which would have to be very tight in order to get a decent amout of traction going) would seem to be a big part of your probem. Larger diameter pulleys and a plain belt always require far less torque to operate - but since you mention it I'd recommend you go with chain anyway since for the most part they can run as relaxed as you like and still transmit plenty of power.
Col.
Regarding your setup I'd say that those tiny pulleys and clunky belts (which would have to be very tight in order to get a decent amout of traction going) would seem to be a big part of your probem. Larger diameter pulleys and a plain belt always require far less torque to operate - but since you mention it I'd recommend you go with chain anyway since for the most part they can run as relaxed as you like and still transmit plenty of power.
Col.
Thank's Col
you have been a great help, sorry to hear about your health problem, but it will soon be spring again, you have a great and very understanding wife.
Pat
you have been a great help, sorry to hear about your health problem, but it will soon be spring again, you have a great and very understanding wife.
Pat
I have been working on this as much as I can and have changed the pulleys to sprockets and chain, and with the motor I mentioned earlier http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ELECTRIC-MOTO ... 023541276t ( I got a 0.5 HP for about £8 more) and it seem to work fine, I have also used sprockets and chain for the rise and fall table,
I have just noticed that the kitchen worktop offcut that I am using as a feed table has a slight dip in the middle which is enough to cause problems, so today I will make a new one from 2 layers of 18mm plywood glued together, I have had a few trial runs with the worktop in place and noticed I am getting snipe on the first 3-4 inches which I need to sort out, I will post some pictures next week, I have found this which is over 30 years old but still good for some ideas, it explains how to adjust the feed table to the drum, and other ideas which someone making their own might find helpful, he runs both off the same motor and feeds in the same dirsction ? http://www.finewoodworking.com/fwnpdffr ... .54-57.pdf
Pat
I have just noticed that the kitchen worktop offcut that I am using as a feed table has a slight dip in the middle which is enough to cause problems, so today I will make a new one from 2 layers of 18mm plywood glued together, I have had a few trial runs with the worktop in place and noticed I am getting snipe on the first 3-4 inches which I need to sort out, I will post some pictures next week, I have found this which is over 30 years old but still good for some ideas, it explains how to adjust the feed table to the drum, and other ideas which someone making their own might find helpful, he runs both off the same motor and feeds in the same dirsction ? http://www.finewoodworking.com/fwnpdffr ... .54-57.pdf
Pat
Lons
Established Member
i'll be watching with interest as I've been seriously looking over the last few weeks. Tempted to buy a little Jet 10-20 but put off a bit by the £750 price tag when it looks a simple machine to make. I've already got the bearings, motor and shaft as well as a length of 110mm soil pipe which should I hope make a decent drum.
I have seen an example on youtube which has feed rollers on both sides but are activated by a hand wheel rather than motor which has to be better than pushing through with your fingers and feed speed easily controllable.
Bob
I have seen an example on youtube which has feed rollers on both sides but are activated by a hand wheel rather than motor which has to be better than pushing through with your fingers and feed speed easily controllable.
Bob
bernienufc
Established Member
I will throw this into the mix as it might help someone in the future.
A lot of DIY shops are closing around the country and the equipment for mixing paint can be old but it works, most of it is just scrapped on return to those who supplied it initially (shall we say Crown, Dulux PPG etc). One of these items is a paint shaker, used to mix 1-4 tins of paint after tinting, you see them in the sheds too, the motor on these i have used to build my own drum sander, the motor is strong enough as it has to move up to 30kg of paint up and down and it also spins at a speed sensible enough not to shake things to pieces.
It is known that it is asked to the shop owner if he has a nearby scrap yard to take some of the items to save the trouble of collecting them just to be scrapped, so if you hear of a local store being closed or even in some cases with bigger stores if their equipment is being upgraded get them to ask their supplier if you can have the old shaker, you just never know, If you get the whole item you get all the bearings belts and pulleys too.
Malc
A lot of DIY shops are closing around the country and the equipment for mixing paint can be old but it works, most of it is just scrapped on return to those who supplied it initially (shall we say Crown, Dulux PPG etc). One of these items is a paint shaker, used to mix 1-4 tins of paint after tinting, you see them in the sheds too, the motor on these i have used to build my own drum sander, the motor is strong enough as it has to move up to 30kg of paint up and down and it also spins at a speed sensible enough not to shake things to pieces.
It is known that it is asked to the shop owner if he has a nearby scrap yard to take some of the items to save the trouble of collecting them just to be scrapped, so if you hear of a local store being closed or even in some cases with bigger stores if their equipment is being upgraded get them to ask their supplier if you can have the old shaker, you just never know
, If you get the whole item you get all the bearings belts and pulleys too.Malc
Lons
Established Member
Good idea Malc, wish I'd known that when the B&Q in Ashington closed down.
Good result for for the toon yesterday =D> obviously your club as well. Where are you btw? I'm just outside Morpeth.
Bob
Good result for for the toon yesterday =D> obviously your club as well. Where are you btw? I'm just outside Morpeth.
Bob
bernienufc
Established Member
Lons":3pz6lbaz said:
Haltwhistle, not too far if you want a motor
Yes good result
Lons
Established Member
bernienufc":26frotsg said:Lons":26frotsg said:
Haltwhistle, not too far if you want a motor
Yes good result
Thanks will bear that in mind Malc, I do occasionally get across to Hexham.
I'm holding fire on the build as there might be a chance of a good s/h Jet 10-20 I could be tempted by. There's a big hole in my workshop now after selling my Robland p/t and Axi morticer. :wink:
Right it's almost finished, I am adding some photos and will post some more if anyone wants them please let me know. I have made some covers for the chains and belt, everything seems to be working good so I will try it for a while and see if it needs any adjustments, the steel bar I used for the rollers is 19mm and covered with rubber hose which I got here http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/271267462833? ... EBIDX%3AIT
Pat
Pat
