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MikeG.":2x1mesdf said:
Noel":2x1mesdf said:
.........Furthermore personally insulting a fellow member is not on and won't be tolerated.

In what way is it not tolerated? The insulting post hasn't been removed. Transatlantic, despite having form, doesn't appear to have been punished in any way. Some guy called me a sphincter (to get around the auto-censor) a couple of days ago. I reported it. Nothing happened. It seems to me that "not being tolerated" equals "being tolerated".
And yet no comprehension of why you were asked to be nice or the request to not be a sphincter (subtle difference). You attacked me with your comments, you pulled imaginary numbers out of the air suggesting they were my own, you made wild assumptions about me, called me a liar and told me to effectively shut up. You even told me to stop disagreeing with you or you would use stronger language and block me. All to support your agenda.

To put this into perspective - All I did was to suggest that people who were having issues with squares being out of square should consider spending a little more (£30+). This was on a thread based on the poor quality of squares. Seemed reasonable to me to suggest better tools cost more.

Now it seems you have since reported me for my response to you and you're now demanding the forum fall in line with your expectations of retribution.

Precious and priceless in equal measure! How do you deal with the real world?
 
shed9":2zwpbq5z said:
MikeG.":2zwpbq5z said:
Noel":2zwpbq5z said:
.........Furthermore personally insulting a fellow member is not on and won't be tolerated.

In what way is it not tolerated? The insulting post hasn't been removed. Transatlantic, despite having form, doesn't appear to have been punished in any way. Some guy called me a sphincter (to get around the auto-censor) a couple of days ago. I reported it. Nothing happened. It seems to me that "not being tolerated" equals "being tolerated".
And yet no comprehension of why you were asked to be nice or the request to not be a sphincter (subtle difference). You attacked me with your comments, you pulled imaginary numbers out of the air suggesting they were my own, you made wild assumptions about me, called me a liar and told me to effectively shut up. You even told me to stop disagreeing with you or you would use stronger language and block me. All to support your agenda.

To put this into perspective - All I did was to suggest that people who were having issues with squares being out of square should consider spending a little more (£30+). This was on a thread based on the poor quality of squares. Seemed reasonable to me to suggest better tools cost more.

Now it seems you have since reported me for my response to you and you're now demanding the forum fall in line with your expectations of retribution.

Precious and priceless in equal measure! How do you deal with the real world?
The difference is Mike didn't get personal with the name calling. It is a big difference.

At the time of the insult he said 'stop making broad statements' - that's not an accusation of lying.
 
Bodgers":19qegjj1 said:
At the time of the insult he said 'stop making broad statements' - that's not an accusation of lying.
MikeG.":19qegjj1 said:
Oh for goodness sake. Far too many broad statements. I've had a cheapie for over 30 years that is 100%. It hasn't changed at all. Look, I don't give a damn if you want to waste money on pointlessly expensive kit, but don't try to justify it to me by making stuff up.

The irony of the broad statement of a cheapie being '100%' over 30 years aside, not sure what your definition of calling someone a liar is but I guess it depends on what or who you think you're defending. My initial comment and initial response were reasonable but he went out of his way to attack them at every opportunity, hence my request to be nice and not be a sphincter about it.

And it now seems you reported it as well? What you do in the real world, who do you complain to when people say things you don't like or disagree with you? Genuinely interested...
 
shed9":17vnu9i5 said:
And it now seems you reported it as well? What you do in the real world, who do you complain to when people say things you don't like or disagree with you? Genuinely interested...

Personal insults, that's the line for me anywhere. You cross a line when you have to resort to that.

If the person you directed it at AND someone independent reported, you need to check yourself.

Keep it civil, no ad hominem stuff, and you will keep your posts from being reported.
 
Bodgers":d36cpbib said:
shed9":d36cpbib said:
And it now seems you reported it as well? What you do in the real world, who do you complain to when people say things you don't like or disagree with you? Genuinely interested...

Personal insults, that's the line for me anywhere. You cross a line when you have to resort to that.

Keep it civil, no ad hominem stuff, and you will keep your posts from being reported.



Sent from my Redmi Note 5 using Tapatalk

Fair point and I appreciate your own civil response. I will take it on board and keep it civil.

On a related note, did you think MikeG was being civil in his comments, again genuine interest?
 
MikeG, you've no idea what has or hasn't been done regarding the offending post in this thread. The post will stay up.
You've brought up the conversation in the Square thread. I thought you were a little bit out of order on that. Your somewhat aggressive tone and subsequent threats about Ignore lists etc was hardly called for. And in turn Shed9 should not have reacted in the manner he did.

Bodgers, if a Mod disagrees with you, no big deal. No point in getting hung up about it. It's only the internet. We'll all privileged to be members here.

Time to move on.
 
Noel":2ko8erum said:
MikeG, you've no idea what has or hasn't been done regarding the offending post in this thread. The post will stay up.
You've brought up the conversation in the Square thread. I thought you were a little bit out of order on that. Your somewhat aggressive tone and subsequent threats about Ignore lists etc was hardly called for. And in turn Shed9 should not have reacted in the manner he did.

Bodgers, if a Mod disagrees with you, no big deal. No point in getting hung up about it. It's only the internet. We'll all privileged to be members here.

Time to move on.
That's maybe part of the problem.

The fact that nobody knows makes it look like no action - There is a possible lack of transparency.

It isn't really a matter of disagree/agree. Personal attacks, as far as I understand are against the rules of the forum.


Sent from my P027 using Tapatalk
 
Noel":yk36i43n said:
........Your somewhat aggressive tone and subsequent threats about Ignore lists etc was hardly called for........

After I'd been called a Sphincter. Righto. Quality analysis, that.
 
Bodgers":342j8y9c said:
Noel":342j8y9c said:
MikeG, you've no idea what has or hasn't been done regarding the offending post in this thread. The post will stay up...........

I know precisely what has been done with the post: it has been left up. That is a decision. A decision that the post was acceptable. There it is, straight from a mod, that personal attacks are acceptable. Calling people names is OK.
 
MikeG.":dcdlyyf3 said:
Noel":dcdlyyf3 said:
........Your somewhat aggressive tone and subsequent threats about Ignore lists etc was hardly called for........

After I'd been called a Sphincter. Righto. You really think this is an acceptable manner to disagree with somebody:Quality analysis, that.

I'm afraid your timeline is a bit off , you really think this is an acceptable way to reply to somebody who shared their opinion in a normal and polite way?:

MikeG.":dcdlyyf3 said:
shed9":dcdlyyf3 said:
........ an £8 square is not going to stay square for long whereas a precision tool will.........

Oh for goodness sake. Far too many broad statements. I've had a cheapie for over 30 years that is 100%. It hasn't changed at all. Look, I don't give a damn if you want to waste money on pointlessly expensive kit, but don't try to justify it to me by making stuff up.

Apart from the tone there were quite a few insults and attacks in your post. Shed9 should not have replied to it in the manner he did and he accepts that.
 
Surreycabinetry":cr7t0gdz said:
British guys are abit cringy...

Mike farrington is one of the best guys, large workshop, good sound, good light, works on projects for clients,explains techniques etc.

I cant stand diyers who cant talk to a camera, have a basement shop and make homemade clamps and workshop shelving..

Got to be honest, I've found videos about making home made cramps pretty useful.
 
petermillard":20323ynz said:
Prominent British youtuber Keith Brown did a recent ‘how much money do I make’ vid. and although he included all sales and commercial work, he’s only making minimum wage.

https://youtu.be/1BdB-c4Cv40

And snce we’re venting, here my pet YouTube hate; all the whingeing moaners who think channels should exist for them, and them alone, because the world revolves around them :D

So, fun thread, let’s see if I can offer some insight...

The Intro > jingle > content is a strategy shown to be effective in grabbing and keeping attention; this is important because most viewers have an attention span of less than ten seconds before they click away to the thumbnail of the girl in a bikini. Fact of life #1: the whingers who complain about this make up an insignificant percentage of viewers. And they thought they were sooooo special...

WRT the call to subscribe - repetition works. The channels will know via analytics what the subscribed/not subscribed viewership is, and anyone with even a passing acquaintance with marketing will know the power of a ‘call to action’ e.g. share/like/subscribe. Fact of life #2; subscribers are becoming a. harder to come by and b. arguably less relevant, since the changes to the algorithm that pushes content into your feed.

YouTube ads vs Sponsor reads; if a channel ‘monetises’ through ads that are shown, they receive a tiny percentage of the revenue generated - but only if the ad plays fully; skip that ad and the channel receives nothing. Channels have no control over the ads shown, occasionally they’re relevant, frequently not. As an aside, US ad views pay a *lot* more than UK ones, hence the ‘Americanisation’ of a lot of videos... Sponsor reads OTOH are arrangements that the individual or channel has made with a company, and are usually as part of the agreement, the channel owner/operator/ proprietor reading a prepared/agreed script to their audience for a fee. On ‘maker’ channels (seriously, what else would you call them??) this can lead to some odd situations e.g. a lot of blokes with beards pushing shaving products. Fact of life #3; it costs a lot of money to run a YouTube channel, especially so if you make stuff, rather than, say, just sitting in front of a camera for an hour on a Saturday morning chatting about toys. My first year on YouTube cost me £16K and it hasn’t got any cheaper since...

And so to Patreon. Patreon is big in the ‘maker’ space (seriously, what else would you.. oh never mind) less so in other areas. It’s a way for individuals to support the channels and creators whose work they enjoy - a bit like a magazine subscription (if you remember magazines) but for video. In return most creators will offer extra goodies for their Patreon supporters - exclusive content, behind the scenes videos, giveaways, plans etc.. etc.. Patreon BTW is American, and refuses to acknowledge any currencies other than $ and € so if you happen to work in £ you can kiss goodbye to ~20% of funds donated through fees and exchange rates. Patreon engagement levels are extremely low for makers (literally a handful with more than 1% of their subscriber base actively engaged) and are typically around the ~0.5% mark, generating $2 or less per Patreon supporter. Fact of life #4; some folks are extremely generous with their support, both financially and in offering advice, but some seem to expect the moon on a stick just because they’ve pledged to throw $1 in the pot.

Affiliate income is a kind of ‘introduction / referral fee’ where you can receive a small fee if someone makes a purchase through a link you provide. Amazon is the big dog here, but obviously it’s not always the most appropriate place for folks to buy from, and Amazon operates (as many others do) as separate companies in the UK, US, France, Germany, Netherlands etc.. etc.. so if you have an international audience and want to generate affiliate income you need an affiliate account with each different company (Amazon.com, Amazon.co.uk, Amazon.fr etc...) and set up unique links for each individual product. Depending on where you are and where your audience is, this can rapidly become a lot of effort for very little return. Fact of life #5; each Amazon company only pays affiliate income in local currency, to a national bank account ie Amazon.com will only pay out to a US bank in $US. So if you’re not in the US you get paid in $US Gift Cards - which are only redeemable at Amazon.com...

So there we are, I hope you’ve enjoyed this ‘mini-rant in reply’, I hope you found it useful. Don’t forget that the best way not to miss one of my mini-rants is to subscribe, and if you do subscribe don’t forget to hit that bell, then you’ll be notified whenever I rant something new. I’d like to take a minute just to thank all of my Patreon supporters, without whom I’d be ranting in the dark as their continued support really helps to keep the lights on here, but that it for this rant, thanks so much for reading, and I’ll see you next time.

Take care...

As one of the "grumpy old guys" guilty as charged! :wink: Mine was only a playful moan, not a proper moan. Thanks for taking the time to explain all that. It's interesting getting a perspective from the other side of the screen.

I don't mind the intro sequences so much as long as they're not super loud, short and to the point, which yours always are. I'm a bit of a YouTube addict, subscribed to about 100+ maker channels, so perhaps I'm a little spoiled. Rightly or wrongly it has given me firm beliefs in what I do and don't like with YouTube content. I do appreciate the time and effort taken for people to kindly share their skills though.

Can I ask though, how did you spend £16k that first year? I'm curious as if my memory is right you previously said it's never been cheaper to make content and you started off using an iphone etc?

Thanks again Peter, keep up the good work!
 
OscarG":3t9p82jx said:
As one of the "grumpy old guys" guilty as charged! :wink: Mine was only a playful moan, not a proper moan. Thanks for taking the time to explain all that. It's interesting getting a perspective from the other side of the screen.

I don't mind the intro sequences so much as long as they're not super loud, short and to the point, which yours always are. I'm a bit of a YouTube addict, subscribed to about 100+ maker channels, so perhaps I'm a little spoiled. Rightly or wrongly it has given me firm beliefs in what I do and don't like with YouTube content. I do appreciate the time and effort taken for people to kindly share their skills though.

Can I ask though, how did you spend £16k that first year? I'm curious as if my memory is right you previously said it's never been cheaper to make content and you started off using an iphone etc?

Thanks again Peter, keep up the good work!

No worries, all comments taken in the spirit they were intended. Actually I agree about long-winded intro sequences with inappropriate music - but ultimately it's the individuals' own channel and they can do exactly what they like, along the journey of finding out what works for them and their audience. You make a lot of mistakes when you first start making anything - woodworkers get to keep theirs private, burn or recycle them, but YouTubers have them on show for everyone to see.

Re the costs; to clarify, I said it cost me £16k - I haven't spent that, it's mostly lost income from the time taken. And yes, the hardware has never been cheaper, the expensive bit of the equation is me, and my time; as a rough idea, think in terms of an hour of 'production' for every minute of video you see on youtube and you won't be far wrong - longer than that when you're starting out as you likely won't have your systems in place to work efficiently. That's doing the kind of thing I do anyway; you can do it a lot more readily if you shoot first-person 'vlog' style video with a lot less editing.

If that's the kind of thing you like to see then my old pal Alastair Johnson at Freebird Interiors in Sheffield has started putting regular videos out, just shooting on an older-model iPhone on a gimbal; great content, and well worth a watch as it's very much a 'real world' look at the fitted furniture business. Recommended.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeYXWJ ... NxP7HDZfIw

Cheers, Peter.
 
petermillard":2aq149ac said:
If that's the kind of thing you like to see then my old pal Alastair Johnson at Freebird Interiors in Sheffield has started putting regular videos out, just shooting on an older-model iPhone on a gimbal; great content, and well worth a watch as it's very much a 'real world' look at the fitted furniture business. Recommended.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeYXWJ ... NxP7HDZfIw

Just watched a few videos, interesting to have that view from a commercial workshop of that size.

Also, in my opinion the intro length on your own videos is bang on. Just enough to identify it to you.
 
Surreycabinetry":fsbjon6z said:
British guys are abit cringy...

Mike farrington is one of the best guys, large workshop, good sound, good light, works on projects for clients,explains techniques etc.

I cant stand diyers who cant talk to a camera, have a basement shop and make homemade clamps and workshop shelving..

Everyone has to start somewhere my friend - you think those glossy youtubers with all the trimmings you seem to love had previous careers in television or other media?

There's one other factor you are forgetting - a lot of amateur woodworkers will be put off by content made by said "glossy professionals" as put of thier league.

As your forum name suggests you are part of a professionally run shop, your viewpoint is clearly biased towards the "fully mechanised, glossy proffessional".

little guys need a chance too.
 
I regularly watch Peter Millard, Keith Brown, Matt S. (Badger workshop) . Both Keith and Matt I've watched from early on, they were just working in a really basic environment with almost no space and few tools - like me.

I find Peter entertaining and very informative. He's been making furniture and stuff for a good few years and brings that knowledge to his videos. I've learned a lot from hm. I particularly like his cheap tool Vs Festool videos, because I can only afford the cheap tool and it's nice to see the difference between the two.

Just a shame Peter can't tell the difference between a clementine and an orange ;)

I watch Szilard Pinter because when I started watching him, he worked out the back of a van and only had crappy tools from screwfix - like me.

I find all of these entertaining and down to earth, none of them are using huge amounts of ridiculously expensive gear in warehouse sized workshops.

I particularly appreciate when they share their mistakes, demonstrating that they're not perfect - just like the rest of us.

I have no issues at all with any of them, they all offer entertainment and knowledge for zero effort on my part.

.
 
Dont know if hes been mentioned, had a scroll through the last few pages but just ended up engrossed in totally irrelevant nonsense (noticeably more of that recently, bit of a shame, thats what the mail online is for surely... thought this was a sanctuary) so ill mention him:

Theres an aussie whos channel is called Pask Makes

hes very likeable, id accept a barbeque invitation anyway, though he doesnt waffle (or even narrate) too much and he is clearly a very capable maker, verging on genius at times, in both wood and metal, plus it sounds like he made the jingle for the scrapwood challenge series, which is pretty great, and theres a marimba build that ends with a duet with his daughter, and its just nice to watch someone working with an apparently tropical garden behind them. entertaining and inspirational and a bit different. so yeah im a fan!
 
Doucette and Wolfe Furniture Makers are well worth a watch. Time lapse short clips of them making traditional high end furniture with hand tools. Maybe not instructional but definitely inspirational...
 
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