Fan light over door

[craigclavin]

Good evening,

My name is Craig and I'm new to the forum. Although I've got plenty of projects under my belt, only now am I starting to develop beyond drilling, screwing and plugging skirting boards on renovation jobs..

My next project is to replace the fan light over the front door of my Victorian property. I'm out in the sticks so I assume that the Victorian style didn't make it out here until after the actual Victorian era as the house is quite Georgian (to me) in appearance. Anyway I digress, I would like to replace the very plain glass semi circle (complete with stick on lead) with a traditional georgian style fanlight.

I have a router, glazing bar bit, milescraft arc cutting kit and a drawing.

Some questions I'm hoping you can help me with. I have some oak but the boards aren't wide enough for me to get the full arc. I'd have to create it in two sections and join it, this might look a little rubbish even when painted up. Is it a crime to use soft wood for external work? There will be quite a temperature differential as one side of the fanlight is practically in my lounge, but my softwood sash windows don't seem to mind. Will I get timber wide enough and thick enough (45mm) to produce a single arc without joins?

Has anyone built one before? There is very little construction advice online that I can find, any guidance on where or how to start is appreciated.

Kind Regards

 

[RobinBHM]

I wouldnt advise making the outer frame in 1 piece of wood, the short grain would be difficult to machine and very liable to crack or break.

I would be tempted to make it in tricoya mdf and build up in 3 layers. I realise that may not be practical as you probabky csnt buy a part sheet.
If in timber Its best done in 3 sections. You could make in 2 or 3 layers which can be screwed and glued. The big gluing area makes a very strong construction.

Making a cartwheel fanlight is a challenging project involving a number of jigs

 

[PAC1]

The curve could be made up in 3 layers of 3 or 4 segments which overlap. But given how slender the section is, it is probably made from 2 or 3 segments that are the full width and joined using a hammerhead joint or handrail bolts. Either way it is hard to explain here you might do best looking for a book such as Circular Work in Carpentry and Joinery by George Collings or maybe Modern Practical Joinery by George Ellis

 

[craigclavin]

Thanks for the replies so far, mdf is appealing actually as my local merchant stocks the moisture resistant stuff from medlite, so I'm sure the tricoya is available to order from his supplier.

That said, given that money is of constraint using the oak I have is attractive. I was please to find a copy of Circular work online in PDF format, which suggests a simple key and three separate pieces of timber would suffice for a fanlight. The book is fantastic so I will pick up a hard copy for future reference.

But as I do wish to develop in competence, perhaps I ought to give the hammerhead joint a go!

Will keep you updated with progress

 

[AJB Temple]

Some years ago I made six fanlights to replace rotten ones above windows in a drawing room. I had no books and no idea how to make them in a pre you tube era so I used quite wide straight quarter sawn planked stock in oak, and mortice and tenoned joints to create half an octagonal shape (which is easy to mark out). The semi circle was then cut on the outside and inside with an electric hand held jigsaw. Glazing bars were let in with a shallow dovetail joint cut by hand and the glass fitted with putty.

This was an expedient solution with limited tools. Mine did not have the small semi circle at the centre, which made it easier.

One of the six twisted after about a year and cracked the glass. I don't really know why.

 

[thetyreman]

this might help:

https://archive.org/stream/cassellscarp ... search/250

I would not say this project will be easy though, the central fanwheel is tricky, also I noticed the original georgian style has mitred corners, which does look a lot nicer, but again a bit more difficult.

The georgian version is undeniably far more aesthetically pleasing so I can see why you would want to replace the current window.

 

[deema]

The fan light is I believe integral to the door frame. You will need to cut it out and you won't know what issues this may reveal, the worst case is that by cutting it out the head of the doorframe becomes detached as the joints have failed.

The fan light will be sat in a brick reveal, and you will need to remove the plaster from inside to be able to get at it and take it out / put the new one in.

I would not use oak, it does not take paint very well at all. You really need Douglas Fir which is a hard softwood and takes paint extremely well.

If I were making this I would actually replace the entire door frame.

However, if making just the fan, I would as already suggested make it out of three layers laminated together. The first layer would be two pieces butting together at the top, the next layer would be three pieces and the last layer would again be two pieces. As you build it up I would screw it together in the waste. In other words I make it out of planks that have the ends cut at an angle to allow them to form the approximate curve. This allows you to position everything properly and get a good fit before using glue, and the screws make for excellent clamps.

Once glued up I would make a template out of MDF and route out the shape. I would not at this stage cut the rebate for the glass.

You need a full size drawing of the widow to cut out and mark up the parts.

Next cut the mortises and then rebate for the glass. Trust me, this is the best way of doing it!

Next cut and shape the glazing bars, tennon the ends and then glue the whole thing up.

It's a fairly advanced bit of joinery, but luckily with it being painted, you can make a few billy do's and either fill or repair any errors without anyone ever knowing.

 

[craigclavin]

Once again I thank you all for your replies. Great as always to see that there are many ways of doing something.

this might help:

......cassellscarpentry

I would not say this project will be easy though, the central fanwheel is tricky, also I noticed the original georgian style has mitred corners, which does look a lot nicer, but again a bit more difficult.

The georgian version is undeniably far more aesthetically pleasing so I can see why you would want to replace the current window.

Another book on the Christmas wishlist, thanks. I do like a challenge and as someone pointed out, it will be painted and having restored many cars, I am a dab hand with the filler :shock:

I also cut out an mdf panel to make sure my dimensions are accurate, so far so good.

However, if making just the fan, I would as already suggested make it out of three layers laminated together. The first layer would be two pieces butting together at the top, the next layer would be three pieces and the last layer would again be two pieces. As you build it up I would screw it together in the waste. In other words I make it out of planks that have the ends cut at an angle to allow them to form the approximate curve. This allows you to position everything properly and get a good fit before using glue, and the screws make for excellent clamps.

In my Google research I have seen many which are integral, but as many again which are not. They sort of sit inside of the door frame which is slightly less desirable, but more desirable than building a whole new frame...that could be a job for retirement (only 34 years to go by my reckoning). This one looks quite nice...

Again re-iterating my frugality at the minute, I have some old 1" thick hardwood boards which I could laminate as you say, although I have no clue what they are. Hard, heavy and very straight.

Any ideas on the species? Can I use the same method of laminating for the glazing bars? I also need these to be 45mm or so thick...

 

[deema]

I'm no expert on identifying wood from a picture. I need to see it, smell it and touch it to be certain. It may be teak however, and if it is, you should not use it for a door that's to be painted. Paint hates teak!

Thinking about what you are trying to achieve which I guess is a look on a budget rather than completing a wood work project, may I suggest you take two pieces of mrmdf, use double sided tape to stick them together, Mark and cut out the fan internal glazing bars as a whole piece and simply stick it to the glass? Two pieces will enable you to make both sides the same and provide the illusion. Use an an ovolu router cutter to replicate the glazing bar look.

 

[craigclavin]

Hello Deema, a decent proposal but I'm in no rush so I might as well just have a go and get as close to the 'proper' way as I can get.
Does mahogany take paint any better? Chanced upon enough to do the fanlight glazing bars and all, this lunch time actually, and free

If not, oak it is and I'll just have to run the risk of flakey paint.

Ps, I hereby declare you competent to identify wood from pictures. Spoke with the guy who gave it me, and he confirmed it as teak. Never thought to ask him initially....!

 

[RobinBHM]

It looks like iroko to me, if so it wont be ideal. Iroko can have lots of tension and you could rip it into lots of bananas!

 

[deema]

I'm delighted that it is teak for both if us! For you, it looks like a big piece of teak, if it's reclaimed and fairly old, it's probably really good stuff and worth a significant amount of money. Teak bought today is verge expensive, so either way a good find / gift to have.

The mahogany is probably Sapele. You can paint it, it needs to be wiped down immediately before you paint it with white spiriits to remove the natural oils that come to the surface. Nice to machine and for hand tools. Stable and well behaved if properly dried out and stored. A quick test for moisture content is to cut a reasonable sized piece off (at least 6" from the end - if you can spare it - the end will be a lot drier so discard the 6" piece) weight it on good scales, bang it in the oven about baking temperature, and after a couple of Hours (cake ready) weight it again, the difference in weight gives you the percentage moisture content. 12~15% would be fine for this application. You would not want it any higher or it could start to rot under the paint as well as move excessively.

 

[craigclavin]

It looks like iroko to me, if so it wont be ideal. Iroko can have lots of tension and you could rip it into lots of bananas!

Thanks, will look out for that and perhaps cut a test piece first...

So, another round of guess the wood...

Any ideas? It is very heavy indeed and I have 4 pieces in total.

 

[deema]

Very difficult from the pictures, but I think the large piece on the left is a mahogany, probably sapele.

 

[craigclavin]

Took the boards to be planed down and the shop advised me that the wood is Keruing. Possibly taken from a truck body. Now I see the two holes at each end, it makes sense...

And from what I have read, hard to machine, poor to paint...

Next plan of action is to either have a go with the Keruing and if that fails, I have some oak boards I will hand plane down to the required thickness.

 

[Bm101]

If it helps I made some replacement window parts from keruing. Primed, undercoated and glossed the windows are still looking good two years later. My local builders yard sells a lot of keruing simply as 'hardwood' machined into various common parts like doorsteps etc so it must paint up to some extent. The dust is a bit toxic I think so be a little careful.
I'm using it to make a bench. It can splinter a bit but it seems to machine ok from my limited experience. Why not give it a go.

 

[craigclavin]

Well on that basis, I will! Thanks

 

[craigclavin]

Progress is slow due to other projects, however today I managed to cut and route the outer arc. Instantly regretted going for hardwood with my limited skills. After several attempts I finally got something which resembled what was in my mind. Few minor splinters to fill at a later stage but overall it's not so bad...as this was probably the easiest part of the fanlight!

 

[Bm101]

That looks very tidy to my eye Craig. If you think you have limited skills come round to my shed and laugh yourself silly one afternoon.

 

[ColeyS1]

Looking smart !!!

Coley