Exterior Pine Door Design Advice

[colinmc8]

Hi everyone,

I´ve always wanted to join a woodworking forum, so nice to meet you all.
I have an exterior Pine door to make (front door of a house) and frame
The Architect says the client wants solid pine. The top of the opening is arched.
The design they want is simple, normal frame shaped to the arch. The frame of the door to be normal, also having the head arched, and the panel area to be solid pine boards, the same thickness as the frame. Their orientation is horizontal and no chamfer on their edges.
So, I hope I described that well enough for you to imagine how it is. Oh and it is to be painted.
My doubts are the panel area. All of these boards are going to move a lot. What I have in mind is, tongue and groove the edges and leave a gap between the boards. I´ve heard of a spacer system called "space balls" which are used around floating panels to keep them centered. I think they are small rubber pellets or something? I don´t know if I will find them in Spain?
So, any advice on this would be very much appreciated.

Edit: just uploaded a sketch

 

[colinmc8]

Wow, guess I'll try another forum.

 

[goldeneyedmonkey]

Hi Colin,

You posted @ the weekend mate, I doubt many people have looked at this. This is an excellent resource/ community and I'm sure there'll be someone along soon who has the know-how. I don't have the expertise to help sorry. But FWIW I'd just make them in a fairly standard floating panel manner, so tongue and groove the edge's of the boards together and then have a gap in the rebate it sits in with some of that foam door seal self adhesive strip in it?

Hope that's of some help, I'm sure some one will have a better solution.

Cheers _Dan

 

[colinmc8]

You posted @ the weekend mate, I doubt many people have looked at this.

That's when you realise you should get out more lol!
Thanks for the reply, also good tip about the foam strip,I actually have a bit lying round.

 

[goldeneyedmonkey]

Thanks for the reply, also good tip about the foam strip,I actually have a bit lying round.

- Quick disclaimer, this is not a tried and tested method, but I can't really see any pitfalls. Your message may have been slightly overlooked as well, due to the fact that it's an exterior pine door, something which would not generally be good practice in the UK due to our lovely weather, whereas the weather in Spain probably ends itself to more stable conditions.

Good luck with it. _Dan

 

[colinmc8]

Cheers Dan,
I don't think pine is a good choice in any country, architects choice though.

 

[Jonzjob]

Don't give up yet Colin. It can take time occasionally for someone to come up with the gen you seek..

Welcome to the forum by the way. A really friendly and helpful bunch on here. Just give them a bit of time?

The design for the door looks good and as long as the pine you use is good quality and dry, about 12% or so, it should be fine. If it's going to be fitted in Barcalona and it's on a South facing wall then there is bound to be some movement. The summer sun there has got to be even stronger than here!

I googled 'space balls' and they are available on the internet so I would think that you would be able to get them spipped to you. They look quite interesting..

Good luck

 

[Jacob]

...
The Architect says the client wants solid pine. The top of the opening is arched.
The design they want is simple, normal frame shaped to the arch. The frame of the door to be normal, also having the head arched, and the panel area to be solid pine boards, the same thickness as the frame.

You must mean same width or it'd weigh a ton and be near impossible

Their orientation is horizontal

That's OK but there is no strength in the door as drawn so the middle board at least might have to be fake and be really a rail, morticed and tenoned to the stiles

and no chamfer on their edges.

Have to have chamfer on top edge at least, to shed water

So, I hope I described that well enough for you to imagine how it is. Oh and it is to be painted.
My doubts are the panel area. All of these boards are going to move a lot. ...

They will! The gaps would all add up and turn into one big gap at the top as they settle downwards on shrinking. You'd have to fix each one firmly at each end but building in a gap with the next one, on the assumption that they will expand. If fixed the gap will be constant.
It's a peculiar and difficult design. It'd be a lot easier to make the door frame the same but instead of setting the boards in, just clap them on from the front and fix with nails. More appropriate to the weird design too.

I don't think pine is a good choice in any country,

Most of the best Georgian and Victorian joinery in Britain is pine. Excellent material, specially if painted.

If this door is to mimic an old style of Spanish door why not have a look at a genuine one and copy it, instead of bodging up a fake?

 

[barkwindjammer]

Ask Mailee how he'd do it :wink:

If I was to tackle this I'd make every 3rd or 4th board a 'rail' with the floating boards between them, Oak is much heavier than pine and I saw lots of what looked like lots of 'olde oak' doors, covered in ironwork like this when I was in Barca, a bead of silicone in the grooves of each board would probably be 'spongy' enough to take up-and allow any movement? [dunno 4 sure icon]

 

[brianhabby]

Ask Mailee how he'd do it :wink:

We know how Mailee would do it - quickly

Will this door have any bracing? it might help to support the boards perhaps with a single fixing in the centre of each board where it meets the brace.

regards

Brian

 

[colinmc8]

You must mean same width or it'd weigh a ton

I mean the same thickness as the door stiles, so the face is flat. Not the same thickness as the main door frame. Would that be too heavy?

That's OK but there is no strength in the door as drawn so the middle board at least might have to be fake and be really a rail, morticed and tenoned to the stiles

This was one of my initial thoughts on how to do it. I like barkwindjammer´s idea

If I was to tackle this I'd make every 3rd or 4th board a 'rail' with the floating boards between them

Have to have chamfer on top edge at least, to shed water

The door opening is around 40cm deep so the top of the door would be ok for rain.

It'd be a lot easier to make the door frame the same but instead of setting the boards in, just clap them on from the front and fix with nails. More appropriate to the weird design too.

Do you mean the boards running the full width of the door? wouldn´t you see all that end grain then?

Most of the best Georgian and Victorian joinery in Britain is pine. Excellent material, specially if painted.

I suppose it depends on the species and grade, also maintenence is a must. I just made some balcony doors here from cedar. They were for an English couple (actually they were American, but live in England for a long time) and they would not even consider pine due to past experience.

If this door is to mimic an old style of Spanish door why not have a look at a genuine one and copy it, instead of bodging up a fake?

I dont think it to mimic an old style, they are going for a contemporary look. I have seen doors in this style but with rounded edges and chamfers.

Anyway, thanks for all the replies. I think I might have a chat with the architect and see if he might change anything.

Feel free to add any more ideas