EVs again - the sensible approach

[Spectric]

If you really think about the proposal then it is completely stupid and absurd, just like HS2 and many other big government projects like cross rail which will be no use once the sea levels rise, so has the government got a secret money tree or something because they seem to want to waste as much money as they can.

They want to electrify motorways so electric lorries can be used, do we not already have electrified routes called railways! so put the containers onto the railways for transport between major hubs and then smaller vehicles to deliver within a radius of each hub. Is the human race losing the inteligence to think or is it that dummmmies work for the government in a special stupidity department, perhaps as we have ministers for everthing these days there will be a minister for stupidity and can have an office near to the minister for farting.

 

[Jacob]

If you really think about the proposal then it is completely stupid and absurd, just like HS2 and many other big government projects like cross rail which will be no use once the sea levels rise, so has the government got a secret money tree or something because they seem to want to waste as much money as they can.

They want to electrify motorways so electric lorries can be used, do we not already have electrified routes called railways! so put the containers onto the railways for transport between major hubs and then smaller vehicles to deliver within a radius of each hub. Is the human race losing the inteligence to think or is it that dummmmies work for the government in a special stupidity department, perhaps as we have ministers for everthing these days there will be a minister for stupidity and can have an office near to the minister for farting.

Yep.
They perhaps think there's more mileage in "innovative" solutions. I think they are wrong!
But right about developing direct connection EVs, which is already well established technology.
HS2 will be electrified - maybe it is more farsighted than everybody thinks!

 

[xy mosian]

.... Is the human race losing the inteligence to think or is it that dummmmies work for the government in a special stupidity department, perhaps as we have ministers for everthing these days there will be a minister for stupidity and can have an office near to the minister for farting.

Back in the 70's I had a lodger who worked for a large government department. After a display of particular idiocy, I asked if it were necessary to be cetified Brain Dead to get his job. He did not understand the question!!
geoff

 

[Phil Pascoe]

so put the containers onto the railways for transport between major hubs and then smaller vehicles to deliver within a radius of each hub.

Two Oxbridge professors did a huge study some years ago and found that if that system were put in place something like iirc 92% of the heavy goods vehicles on the road would still be on the road. I would imagine a drawback is that instead of having one truck do the whole trip, you have two - one at each end.

 

[Spectric]

But if the rail tracks went into the Amazon depots then you would lose an even larger number of lorries.

 

[Jacob]

Two Oxbridge professors did a huge study some years ago and found that if that system were put in place something like iirc 92% of the heavy goods vehicles on the road would still be on the road. I would imagine a drawback is that instead of having one truck do the whole trip, you have two - one at each end.

Oil will be priced out if things are going to be taken seriously. It's ludicrously cheap at the mo and should have been incrementally taxed from a long way back. Maybe the battery powered EVs would do all the local stuff.

 

[clogs]

all these "brilliamt idea's " from gov is only ment to fill thier pockets.....
not actually work.....
Like HS2, it'd be cheaper for the gov to pay for everyones airline ticket than build that DISASTER.....
except the wannabee's will be poorer for it.....

 

[flying haggis]

But if the rail tracks went into the Amazon depots then you would lose an even larger number of lorries.

how many amazon depots are anywhere near a rail line?

 

[mikej460]

That’s just near me, so thanks, we’ve got months of utter f...... pandemonium. It did make me laugh when I first saw it though, talk about full circle, here we are back with trams!
It’s going to be a very strange and probably totally useless test of the equipment, which transport company is going to go to the expense of buying new lorries just for that? It’s not the sort of thing that can be back engineered onto existing trucks.
As was said, them in charge are chuffing clueless.

Think milk floats then where we are now with electric cars. My prediction is that transport will soon become a hybrid of hydrogen and electricity, and further out an updated Maglev rail system and who knows even Vactrains...

 

[mikej460]

[/QUOTE]

so put the containers onto the railways for transport between major hubs and then smaller vehicles to deliver within a radius of each hub.

Hubs like DIRFT in the Midlands operate just like this
Prologis RFI DIRFT | Prologis UK

 

[Jacob]

[

Hubs like DIRFT in the Midlands operate just like this
Prologis RFI DIRFT | Prologis UK

Makes sense. Could expand same for personal transport - long trips by connected electric train no batteries, short trips to/from stations with battery driven cars - or connected public transport, trams, trolleys etc i.e. pretty much what we already have but more of it.
Long distance battery powered is and always will be fundamentally inefficient due to the need to carry the batteries themselves.
Power to weight ratios The Back Page

 

[doctor Bob]

The idea of trading in the convenience of a car or motorbike for packed trains electric or not which don't get you to your final destination and cost a fortune, when some people are burning a gazzilion gallons of fuel to travel into space for a 10 minute vanity trip is rather unappealing at present.

 

[mikej460]

Makes sense. Could expand same for personal transport - long trips by connected electric train no batteries, short trips to/from stations with battery driven cars - or connected public transport, trams, trolleys etc i.e. pretty much what we already have but more of it.
Long distance battery powered is and always will be fundamentally inefficient due to the need to carry the batteries themselves.
Power to weight ratios The Back Page

I think the prototype trains currently under trials with a f'huge battery bank on board are designed to be self charging, on the basis that trains 'free wheel' for a lot of their journey - not true on some I assume, only those going south...

 

[Terry - Somerset]

Using trains for freight and transferring loads for local delivery is a non-starter. Stations will need a goods yard, materials handling systems, separate vehicles required at each end.

As the rail network is already adequately supplied with power a better solution would be for "trains" to comprise a digitally connected stream of vehicles without drivers. Technically feasible and limited safety issues as no interaction with other traffic. Vehicles could be battery powered and recharged whilst in the "train".

Vehicles would leave the "train" when they reach their destination station and go driverless to a car park. The "train" would close up to eliminate gaps. Drivers would do local deliveries and return the vehicle to the car park. It would then be added to a "train" for its next assignment.

It is questionable whether steel rails or tarmac would be a better "track" for the "train".

Trains in decades past were used far more extensively to move goods around the country. This was not financially viable and transport transferred to an improving road network on which individual vehicles could be specified for the weight and size of load to be carried.

Going back to the train model probably makes little financial sense - what's changed. Whether there is an environmental benefit is a fair question, although the answer is far from clear.

 

[Cooper]

Two Oxbridge professors did a huge study some years ago and found that if that system were put in place something like iirc 92% of the heavy goods vehicles on the road would still be on the road. I would imagine a drawback is that instead of having one truck do the whole trip, you have two - one at each end.

We have been here before. In suburban Bromley the waste infrastructure and fuel delivery (coal) were centred on the railways. The waste yard had a hopper that filled wagons that took the rubbish away. We now have a system where massive trucks removing waste have to compete with the queues of cars wanting to get to the tip. The plastic and card recycling firm based by the station was closed and a supermarket, which generates considerable packaging, was built on the site and all the deliveries come by massive trucks, their card and plastic taken away by another one, meanwhile just up the highstreet half the shops are either closed or short term lets etc. Bonkers. We seem to be trying to solve problems a slightly longer term view wouldn't have created in the first place. Short term gain long term pain. Lets hope the current plonkers, who have the reins at the moment, aren't as stupid and venal as they seem.

 

[MikeJhn]

That's the idiocy of restricting their speed.

Its the idiocy of the drivers who are only doing 0.5mph more than the lorry they are overtaking, foot flat to the floor don't lift it until you reach your destination.

 

[Jacob]

.....

Going back to the train model probably makes little financial sense - what's changed.

What's changed is the urgent need to stop using fossil fuels, which is also the answer to your next question

Whether there is an environmental benefit is a fair question, although the answer is far from clear.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Its the idiocy of the drivers who are only doing 0.5mph more than the lorry they are overtaking, foot flat to the floor don't lift it until you reach your destination.

Quite often the driver being overtaken doesn't floor it until he realises he's being overtaken.

 

[jim1950]

All the talk of overhead power for hgvs is madness just go look at the JCB engine running on Hydrogen, harrys garage vid on youtube
Job done, Evs great town cars not for big stuff

 

[D_W]

All the talk of overhead power for hgvs is madness just go look at the JCB engine running on Hydrogen, harrys garage vid on youtube
Job done, Evs great town cars not for big stuff

Only 9 dollars a gallon and reformed from natural gas.