Etsy con

[johnnyb]

Just been perusing this site and I can't help thinking almost everyone (making wooden stuff) is almost certainly merely breaking even. Many seem only to make for makings sake.
Am I misreading this. The only people making money are etsy and the shippers! Bear in mind minimum wage is set to top £11/hr this year. What am I missing?

 

[akirk]

you are missing the fact that most people on there are not running it as a commercial business, they tend to fall into three categories:

commercial business - tend not to be on Etsy because a realistic price looks non-competitive against others, however in some categories they can do well (selling digital laser files / mass-producing chopping boards / etc.)

'side hustle' - people who think that they are setting up a second business alongside working their 9-5 job - generally speaking they don't account for any overheads / heating costs / their time / the mortgage on the building / the tools costs / etc. - they simply see the total take as being what they make.

hobby makers - people who acknowledge that it is a hobby and are happy to sell for the cost of the resources (so wooden bowl for cost of blank and a bit more) because it funds their purchase of more wood / the occasional tool etc. and means that their hobby is cheap to enjoy

 

[johnnyb]

Seems a strange state of affairs. Almost nonsensical tbh. May as well make then give it away! I just read hmrc are cracking down on ebay and etsy. If they investigate etsy sellers they be issuing refunds!

 

[Terry - Somerset]

Money is not l9fes only motivation.

One could, for instance, make stuff to sell in a charity shop - the maker gets satisfaction in creating the item (bowl, trinket, chopping board etc), regards the wood as a charitable donation, the charity gets the income from sale.

Win, win!!

 

[Orraloon]

There would be few of us making any money out of woodworking let alone a living wage. To those that do I say well done because they have really grafted to get there. I have made things for people after a price has been agreed but mostly they recoil at just the price of the wood so I have never looked for the work. Only when asked. I may have come close to the minimum hourly rate for Cambodia at times. Anyhow most of us do it to unwind and I for one don't really want it becoming a job. Did my time as a wage slave and free at last.
Regards
John

 

[danst96]

Akirk gets it right, a while back I had a couple of things on Etsy and by no means did the price account for my time because I viewed my woodworking time as my downtime/hobby time and any time in the workshop was purely for fun and if I could make a little profit on the item to fund a tool or more wood then that's great.

Etsy isn't the platform for high price high quality custom furniture.

 

[johnnyb]

It implies to me that creation is like religion. Humanity can't be without it.maybe the opportunity to create is so lacking that it just bursts out. Seemingly at any cost. People are often so tight in real life making a hobby of saving cash to be involved in something that's basically a monetary con(albeit a spiritual experience)
Folk are queer!

 

[akirk]

It implies to me that creation is like religion. Humanity can't be without it.maybe the opportunity to create is so lacking that it just bursts out. Seemingly at any cost. People are often so tight in real life making a hobby of saving cash to be involved in something that's basically a monetary con(albeit a spiritual experience)
Folk are queer!

If you haven't read it - try this book:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Why-Make-Things-Matters-Education-ebook/dp/B00O72S2CA/
Why we make things and why it matters - very good...

 

[davedoublem]

I'm a general crafter that has sold a variety of items on etsy. It's not an easy place to sell and I've done far better on other sites. I would say the vast majority of sellers that make a reasonable turnover with wood are those using a laser cutter. I doubt many are skilled wood workers but instead those looking for an easier and quicker way to make some money.

 

[Cooper]

This thread made me think of the Antiques Roadshow it often has items that are made from beautiful materials and incredible skill and give a valuation far less than if it were commissioned today. People generally don’t value skill or time.

 

[SimonStevensCanes]

What a thought provoking post. First thing to be sure of, when you're looking at Etsy in the current context, you need to be filtering by "Handmade" and in the UK to get an actual view on what makers are selling at what price. Most other items on Etsy are Chinese import, a real shame considering Etsy's roots.

I sell on Etsy, and I'm actively trying to build a business out of woodworking, or making in general. I suspect that's quite at odds with a portion of woodworking sellers, who just want to sell the things that they are inspired to make to make a little money to fund their hobby or maybe put towards a holiday.

"Selling things that you are inspired to make" in my opinion is categorically at odds with "selling a product that you make". I have put thousands of hours into developing products that I can make in a time frame that makes them profitable. It's a skill that I think most don't have.

Take for example the hand sanding blocks that I make...



It's a simple design, but it took me 3 months and hundreds of hours to refine the production process to ensure that I could make each one in under 10 minutes. (including laser cutting the velcro, engraving the logo, finishing, packaging etc). At £25 they are a premium product, but it's profitable even selling them wholesale.

Making, and even product development are easy and fun compared to what is actually required to sell... marketing. Makers that are interested in marketing are already likely running successful businesses. The rest of us, are probably frustrated that "if you build it, they will come" is just not remotely true. Platforms like Etsy are "supposed" to solve this, by providing a steady stream of customers to our shop, but of course, they end up so big that now you need to market within Etsy. Lots of effort is needed.

 

[johnnyb]

Ironically your blocks seem expensive until you realise one made from plastic is £10! And maybe pre covid would be half that figure. That's my method of judging cost now. If I halve it does it seem OK. Yes equals the correct price. Do I think raw materials are vastly overpriced definitely. Timber yards have been profiteering right through covid and are still having a go.

 

[Daniel2]

What a thought provoking post. First thing to be sure of, when you're looking at Etsy in the current context, you need to be filtering by "Handmade" and in the UK to get an actual view on what makers are selling at what price. Most other items on Etsy are Chinese import, a real shame considering Etsy's roots.

I sell on Etsy, and I'm actively trying to build a business out of woodworking, or making in general. I suspect that's quite at odds with a portion of woodworking sellers, who just want to sell the things that they are inspired to make to make a little money to fund their hobby or maybe put towards a holiday.

"Selling things that you are inspired to make" in my opinion is categorically at odds with "selling a product that you make". I have put thousands of hours into developing products that I can make in a time frame that makes them profitable. It's a skill that I think most don't have.

Take for example the hand sanding blocks that I make...

View attachment 173534

It's a simple design, but it took me 3 months and hundreds of hours to refine the production process to ensure that I could make each one in under 10 minutes. (including laser cutting the velcro, engraving the logo, finishing, packaging etc). At £25 they are a premium product, but it's profitable even selling them wholesale.

Making, and even product development are easy and fun compared to what is actually required to sell... marketing. Makers that are interested in marketing are already likely running successful businesses. The rest of us, are probably frustrated that "if you build it, they will come" is just not remotely true. Platforms like Etsy are "supposed" to solve this, by providing a steady stream of customers to our shop, but of course, they end up so big that now you need to market within Etsy. Lots of effort is needed.

So, if I have understood you correctly, you're pricing yourself at £150 p/hr ?

 

[eribaMotters]

£150 p/hr, sounds like a car main dealership rate.

Colin

 

[mudman]

So, if I have understood you correctly, you're pricing yourself at £150 p/hr ?

Would initially seem that way but how much for materials, electricity, workshop costs, R&D time, etc? When you identify and enumerate all the costs involved, it isn't that much.

 

[niall Y]

£150 per hour? I don't really follow the logic of this That is a bit like going to the theatre working out the number of actors on the stage; the duration of the performance; what you ( and the rest of the audience ) paid for the ticket and believing that, from this, you can come up with the actors hourly rate. The true rate is in reality going to be substantially less than this.

If £ 150 is the cost for 6 items from which you then subtract the materials used and the overheads, that will give you a more accurate figure Even so, you will not come up with a true hourly rate, . Other things have to be taken into account. such as size and frequency of your production runs, and whether you sell all of the Items produced, or not

 

[Rhossydd]

So, if I have understood you correctly, you're pricing yourself at £150 p/hr ?

You've understood wrongly.
You've failed to take into account that there are costs involved in making and selling the item;
Materials costs; Wood, velcro, finishing products, packaging
Cost of production; Electricity, depreciation of capital assets
Costs of sales; Postage, Etsy selling fees
Costs of running any sort of business; Costs of internet connectivity, IT systems, insurance, premises costs
Once you take all those away you can get down to how much actual profit is made.
Whilst many of these costs can seem small, they do all add up and lower the overall profitability.

 

[Daniel2]

I think you have misunderstood my point.

Fully equipped commercial machine shops don't charge that, let alone
a chap on his own in his garden shed.
The actual costs involved are, although never neglible, minimal to say
the least.
Proof, as always, is in the pudding... How many units have you sold
@SimonStevensCanes ?
I certainly don't intend to appear negative, but £25 for a sanding block ?
No, sorry...

 

[johnnyb]

Are you suggesting it's to much or to little? Not really clear sorry.
Anyway if I wanted a sanding block I would prefer his at £25 over a plastic one at £10! If your suggesting premium tools don't have any need to exist...well I beg to differ(as do most on this forum I'd wager) start by halving £12.50 seems OK to me?
I personally feel Cork is an almost magical material for sanding blocks. Being strangely rigid and not distorting but also light and absorbant.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Mine are bits of scrap 18mm ply and MDF with carpet tile stuck to them. Free.