Energy Saving

[Sporky McGuffin]

I think he moved from about 400Hp to 1000hp. That may be fine in CA where they have 95% renewable energy, but he has increased pollution by going electric!

I don't think that necessarily follows, for a number of reasons:

• We don't know that he was previously regularly using 400hp, or that he is now regularly using 1000hp
• The silly-sounding power levels of some electric cars is less about accelerating, and more about regenerative braking - to achieve lots of the latter you inherently end up with lots of the former; a Hummer is very heavy so can make use of a lot of regenerative braking
• Generating electricity is almost always cleaner than delivering the same amount of energy as petrol - refining the latter is very energy intensive

During the oil crisis in the 1970's we were told to reduce the weight carried in our cars to improve economy.
Now we are 'told' that carrying that extra weight is 'saving the planet'.

There is an obvious difference between, say, 80kg of just-more-car, and 80kg of hybrid system that is used to store the energy that would otherwise be lost to heat when braking so it can instead be used to accelerate the car again. The former definitely hurts energy efficiency (more energy taken to accelerate, more energy lost in braking); the latter, especially in stop-start traffic, definitely improves it.

 

[Misterdog]

The number of cars on UK roads has risen by 5.5 million in the last 20 years, so in 20 years time it will be more a case of stop/stop rather than stop/start.

As people will be just driving around trying to find somewhere to park.

 

[Sporky McGuffin]

We don't know that that rate of increase will continue, just as it turned out that disposable razors didn't result in a singularity in 2015, when they'd have an infinite number of blades (as predicted by curve-fitting the Gillette Safety Razor, the Trac II, Mach3, Quattro, and Fusion).

 

[Jacob]

......... I'm very cynical about new technology as a way of saving the planet. .....

Agree. There will be new technology but the big issue is the massive change of life style without fossil fuel. In the meantime chatter about EVs and heat pumps is so much hot air and barely relevant. Worse than that it's a distraction from the real issues.
We'll know that things are taking a turn when we start hearing about fuel rationing, 50mph speed limits, high taxation on meat products, bans on import/export of all manner of products particularly meat, and fuels, no new coal mines or oilfields etc etc

 

[Misterdog]

We don't know that that rate of increase will continue, just as it turned out that disposable razors didn't result in a singularity in 2015, when they'd have an infinite number of blades (as predicted by curve-fitting the Gillette Safety Razor, the Trac II, Mach3, Quattro, and Fusion).

• The population of the UK is projected to increase by 3.0 million (4.5%) in the first 10 years of the projections, from an estimated 66.4 million in mid 2018 to 69.4 million in mid 2028.

So the number of vehicles is likely to continue to grow, I suspect at a similar rate.

Razor blade sales will probably also grow.

 

[cowtown_eric]

and here I am trying to convince my wife that we need two dishwashers.....onne for dirty dishes, and the other having clean dishes in it. Saves putting them into the cupboards!!!!!

 

[Spectric]

The population of the UK is projected to increase by 3.0 million (4.5%) in the first 10 years of the projections, from an estimated 66.4 million in mid 2018 to 69.4 million in mid 2028.

Have you taken into account the governments acceptable covid deaths, upto 200 a day is ok so that will reduce numbers by about 70,000 a year and then some of those could have reproduced so could be higher.

 

[Misterdog]

Swings and rowing boats.

More than 1,100 people made the perilous journey across the Channel in small boats on Friday and Saturday, as France accused Britain of failing to provide funds promised to tackle the problem.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/oct/10/1100-migrants-cross-channel-small-boats-uk-two-days
There were at least 20,000 deaths from influenza in one year under Tony Blair

Very high levels of flu were seen in 1999/00, when there were 48,000 excess winter deaths

Highest number of excess winter deaths since 1999/2000 - Office for National Statistics

The figures I quoted for population increase were from the ONS.

 

[hairy]

I recently watched Jordan Peterson and Michael Shellenberger talking about the latters book Apocalypse Never.

Hopefully it was within that it was said it's not so much big industry eating the rainforest for instance but the very poor on the edges hacking a subsistance lifestyle. The poor consume proportionally more energy, so the faster their standard of life is improved the less pollution and wood burning will happen. Therefore e.g. all the coal in India should be burnt as soon as possible to lift everyone out of poverty as fast as possible to get to a position of polluting less. Not what will be imminently coming from Glasgow I am sure, an interesting thought however.

 

[Jacob]

This is total nonsense - the opposite of the truth.

..... it's not so much big industry eating the rainforest for instance but the very poor on the edges hacking a subsistance lifestyle. The poor consume proportionally more energy, so the faster their standard of life is improved the less pollution and wood burning will happen. .....

The big problem is pasture and cattle feed. The poor are losing their low carbon livelihood as a result.
https://rainforests.mongabay.com/amazon/amazon_destruction.htmlCO2 production is very much due to the wealthier parts of the population.
n.b. Shellenberger and Peterson are widely regarded as idiots
Book review: Bad science and bad arguments abound in 'Apocalypse Never' by Michael Shellenberger » Yale Climate Connections

 

[John Brown]

• The population of the UK is projected to increase by 3.0 million (4.5%) in the first 10 years of the projections, from an estimated 66.4 million in mid 2018 to 69.4 million in mid 2028.

So the number of vehicles is likely to continue to grow, I suspect at a similar rate.

Razor blade sales will probably also grow.

I suspect you might have missed the point with regards to the razor blade reference.

 

[Chris152]

Therefore e.g. all the coal in India should be burnt as soon as possible to lift everyone out of poverty as fast as possible to get to a position of polluting less. Not what will be imminently coming from Glasgow I am sure, an interesting thought however.

Isn't that a bit like driving as fast as possible in search of a petrol station because you're running out of fuel?

 

[Sandyn]

I don't think that necessarily follows, for a number of reasons:

Yes, I understand and agree, my point was more that we are focusing too much on getting vehicles electric without putting any limit of the power they consume. Who really needs a 1000hp heavy Hummer apart from the army?
Electric vehicles have a comparatively long charge time, so a lot of people will just have a spare car, so one is always charged. As I said before. There is HUGE money involved. The car companies must be rubbing their hands in glee. Just like LED lighting, electric cars have been thrown in the ring as a solution. I don't think they are. It's just paying lip service to the real problem and takes attention away from better solutions....Think I've been listening to wee Greetin Greta too much!! I have grown to admire her.

 

[Sporky McGuffin]

I absolutely agree that the focus should be on reducing consumption. But a 1000hp electric car can be more efficient than a 100hp electric car, because the larger motors scavenge more energy in regenerative braking. The problem with the hummer isn't the 1000hp, its the 3500kg.

We may be agreeing in different directions!

 

[Misterdog]

Though if you drive conscientiously you maintain momentum and this regenerative braking that you are so fond of has far less effect.

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Though cycling/walking/public transport has an even more beneficial effect.

 

[John Brown]

Though if you drive conscientiously you maintain momentum and this regenerative braking that you are so fond of has far less effect.

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Though cycling/walking/public transport has an even more beneficial effect.

That's true, but most people don't they accelerate fast and brake late and hard.

 

[Sandyn]

But a 1000hp electric car can be more efficient than a 100hp electric car, because the larger motors scavenge more energy in regenerative braking.

yes. I appreciate that, but it would need to be one hell of an inefficient 100hp motor to use more than the 1000hp. that's getting in the combustion engine range!!

 

[Droogs]

This is interesting

 

[Just4Fun]

Obviously every tap is different but, I experimented with one hot water tap in our house that took ages to warm. I measured 7 pints before the flowing water changed from cold to warm.

I am currently having some issues with my hot water system. As part of my diagnostics I have today measured the hot water temperature at the kitchen tap. I drew off 1 litre and measured its temperature, drew off another litre and measured its temperature, and so on. I did this first thing in the morning before any taps had been used. The first litre was 19.9 degrees celsius. I had to draw off 21 litres before the temperature reached 36.6 celsius which I regarded as body temperature.
The kitchen tap is a mixer tap (a real one which actually mixes hot & cold water, not the imitations you get in the UK). I had it fully left to get just hot water but I wonder if it is nevertheless mixing in some cold water. I will try again tomorrow morning with the cold supply turned off to check that.

The really depressing thing is that our hot water is on a loop, and the kitchen tap is the first outlet on the loop. Other outlets are progressively further around the loop so will require more water to be drawn off before getting warm.

 

[Sporky McGuffin]

Though if you drive conscientiously you maintain momentum and this regenerative braking that you are so fond of has far less effect.

No fondness, just correcting some woolly thinking.