End grain problems

[stevebuk]

ok, went into the cabin today with all good intensions of turning a goblet and/or a bowl.
Started turning a goblet, absolutely no chance whatsoever, the lathe just kept stalling and i couldn't get anywhere with it.
So, picked up a bowl blank and started turning that instead, After a thumpy start managed to round off the bottom, this is when the end grain appeared

no matter what i did i couldn't get rid of it, light cuts, heavy sanding, used water, sanding sealer, alsorts to get rid of it, but to no avail.
Decided i'd had enough so through it in the skip and went in.
how do i get rid of this menace should it happen again.

 

[CHJ]

Steve, it looks to me (could do with a bigger pic) that you have torn the end grain with either a dull tool or wrong angle of approach/cut.

This then reaches several mm deep (4-5mm even) into the wood and will continue to show until you cut back beyond it with sharper tools or better angle of approach.

Try to position your gouge so that you are getting a slicing/shearing cut rather than straight on.

 

[Bodrighy]

I don't know what the answer is Steve. Even with Pine I have managed to gbet rid of it eventually. When you apply the sealer do you sand straight away or wait and leave it for a bit. What grade sand are you using to start with?

Pete

 

[cornucopia]

what wood is it steve? some woods are a pain- i had a load of wych elm once and it was horrible really dry and a nightmare to get a finish on.
the only anwser is a razor sharp gouge and a very fine whispy shaving cut- but even then you may have to start sanding at 80 to get rid of the last bits.

 

[boysie39]

, Cornucopia always says that it is tool sharpness that is the important thing. I get the same at times and head for the grinder, sometimes it works if I can get a good edge but if I keep trying eventuly I get a good finish but a smaller piece :lol: :lol: . REgards Boysie.

 

[wizer]

If you do have to resort to the sand paper gouge then I have found that just using hand sanding while the lathe if running won't get rid of it. You either need to stop the lathe and sand the area with the grain or use a power pad. But there's no accounting for sharp tool, or so I'm told.

 

[Richard Findley]

Hi Steve,

The first port of call should deffinatly be the grinder. After this come back to the wood and first try the push cut we did. Bevel rubbing with the handle out over the bed, starting at the foot and working up to the rim.

This should immediatly improve matters. Then there is the shearing cut we did which you could try. Handle low, flute very closed to the wood using the bottom wing to get those very fine shavings.

Some woods respond better to one or the other of the cuts but for either cut you really need sharp tools.

Good luck Steve.

Richard

 

[stevebuk]

not sure what type of wood it is, it looks a bit like zebrano with stripes, but i know its not that.
it probably is that i need a sharper tool but i did sharpen all the tools i used on it but nothing to really get it right.
I used sanding sealer, waiting a while the hand sanded without the lathe on, and with the lathe, i used the arbor and sanding discs which got parts really smooth but the grain was all around the bowl, i even turned the bowl for a short while and di exactly what richard had showed me before, i was hollowing out ok but the wood was awful.
This picture shows the end grain

and this was a part that was better

i must admit, i do need the angle jig for my fingernail gouge to get it sharp, but the normal bowl gouge was sharpened several times.
i only have 100 grit as my lowest , must get 30 grit gouge :lol:

you know, all i really want to do is make a bloody goblet on my own, the one in george's post is beautiful and the wood looks easy and smooth, why is it every time i try to do something the wood seems crap, or is it me thats crap, hmmm..

 

[The Shark]

Hi Steve,
Don't be so hard on yourself, Rome wasn't built in a day!!! :lol:
Every time I go home and see my exotic firewood pile, or go to Woodex and watch Richard effortlessly produce a bowl, I wonder why I am even bothering trying to master this black art of woodturning.
But then next time something goes well, and a grudging "well done" from the experienced hands at the club bring me back for more.
I am slowly getting there, and from seeing your work, you are ahead of me.
Please keep persevering, it will be worth it in the end.

Malc

 

[wizer]

it looks like Lignum??

 

[Paul.J]

Steve.
Have you tried cutting in different directions,and with a faster speed :?:
Try cutting from where the curve starts towards the chuck,and from the same place towards the tenon/spigot,just doing light cuts.Or the other way round if that don't work.

 

[stevebuk]

Steve.
Have you tried cutting in different directions,and with a faster speed :?:

changing speeds on this lathe isn't quick or easy, in fact i nearly made a major error yesterday, i wasn't going to mention it but i will now.
When changing speeds you have to remove a 2 plates, unscrew the motor and lift it up , then while holding it up fiddle in the back to adjust the belt to seat the same at the top as the bottom, well because i wanted to change speeds more often i left the plates off altogther, and sure enough the lathe vibrated away from me as it usually does so i went to pull it back and put my hand inside the opened pully system to which my finger hit the spinning belt, but gladly no harm became of it.
lesson learned..

 

[cornucopia]

it looks like Lignum??

its not lignum- lignum wont tear end grain even with the back of a gouge- its soooo dense and oily- effortless wood to acheive a glass finish on.

could be imbuya- does it have a strong smell steve?

 

[wizer]

Yeh I thought Lignum wouldn't tear like that.

Steve, when me and Blister were making that clock (now pride of place above my Dad's bar), we got an area on the face grain that was like what you where getting. The only way we could get it was ramping the speed up almost to the top and making a slow steady cut along the face. It got 98% of it and the sandpaper eliminated the rest. Don't be afraid to turn the speed up once it's balanced. I know it'f a faff with your lathe, but it's all part of turning. There's no rush is there? (must take my own advice)

 

[mark sanger]

Steve hi

Not a great deal to add as all has been advised before/ Don't be too hard on yourself it is just turning and at times it really is a pain in the what ever.

I use to get this loads on exotics when starting out and I wonder if one of the reasons is as follows.

I notice from your shape that the sides are straightish. This is my thinking.

To get a good finish when cutting with the gouge the grain has to be fully supported. If you are cutting directly perpendicular to the end grain and taking fine cuts then the grain may ( and I say may not be supported enough ) for the fibres behind to give enough pressure on the fibres being cut to slice through them properly. It may be thins that is causing the tear out.

Being a hard wood it may be that the wood structure is not a pliable as say sycamore and therefore the fibres are much less forgiving.

Try next time try producing more of a curve on the side profile to see if this helps. This will change the angle by which the fibres are approached and may enable the grain to be more supported.

As I say this is my theory and may not be right but being totally perpendicular to the end grain is much more difficult to cut than a angle.

Also I Dave Ellsworth s latest book he actually says if he gets this problem on a bowl he will break the rule and work from outside in on the external shape. I have tried this and it works.

I hope this may help.

 

[Lightweeder]

Even Richard Raffan, in his book, says you'll get this from time to time. He recommends turning off the lathe and hand-sanding. Didn't feel so bad after I read that.

 

[mark sanger]

It's true some times no matter how hard you try you just have to sand it out.

 

[Richard Findley]

Hi Steve,

Some pieces of wood are just bas**rds and cause permanent headaches

The only other thing to try is a good coat of your chosen finsh or a Shellac Sanding sealer mix and re-cut with a newly sharpened tool. If this doesn't improve things bin it!!!!

Richard

 

[stevebuk]

Hi Steve,

Some pieces of wood are just bas**rds and cause permanent headaches

The only other thing to try is a good coat of your chosen finsh or a Shellac Sanding sealer mix and re-cut with a newly sharpened tool. If this doesn't improve things bin it!!!!

Richard

i already have Richard, it just wasn't having any of it. I also have to buy the fingernail jig for the Tormek to, cant sharpen the gouge without it.

 

[wizer]

Have your numbers come up Steve ?? :lol: