pe2dave
Established Member
And ditto for all other mfc's? Crazy not to have standards, at least UK, if not .eu wide.
I do hope uk.gov get in on this.
Electric vehicles
- Thread starter Woodchips2
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I do hope uk.gov get in on this.
This reminds me of a conversation I had with two AutoCAD draftsmen who worked for me. I wanted to standardize the drawing formats and one of the guys said something like "I love standards. That's why I use my own." I thought he was joking, but he was serious.
Some things are improving in the area of standards. USB for example. USB-C is quickly becoming the standard connector for many devices. I just bought an electric toothbrush that uses USB-C to charge it up, my phone is also USB-C and uses that port for charging, data and headphone. You can get laptops that only use USB-C, even for their power cable as it can handle higher voltages than standard USB connectors.
beech1948
Established Member
Most of my journeys until the new year are a max of about 90 miles so well within the capability of the Tesla. My next long journey is Jan 5th from Crowthorne to Glasgow, then Preston, then Derby, then Bristol and eventually home. Will be interesting to see if the Tesla can cope with some intensive driving. Not done the route planning yet but learnt that I also need to factor in Hotels which have charge points.
I also think that having a Standard for charge plugs would be great as would a standard for the rate of charge. That idea of standards though will only be possible when either the Government or a couple of big companies set out to create the UK infrastructure. Obviously not there yet.
I also think that having a Standard for charge plugs would be great as would a standard for the rate of charge. That idea of standards though will only be possible when either the Government or a couple of big companies set out to create the UK infrastructure. Obviously not there yet.
Terry - Somerset
Established Member
It may not need government action to create common charging standards. Currently many manufacturers are promoting unique solutions in the hope of becoming the de facto standard as sales volumes increase. Tesla are prime exponents of this.
EV buyers want flexible charging. This may help agreement between some manufactuers to adopt common standards, account and payment processes - particularly if product ranges initially don't compete.
Once one standard starts to dominate charging, other manufacturers will be forced to be compliant or risk losing sales.
The EV market seems too small at present for this transition - but in two years time volumes may have increased sufficiently to make it a reality.
Many decades ago, similar complexities were played out between VHS, Betamax, Phillips 2000; the same has happened with domestic IT cabling, connectors and interfaces. Mainly so far as I am aware with very limited government intervention.
EV buyers want flexible charging. This may help agreement between some manufactuers to adopt common standards, account and payment processes - particularly if product ranges initially don't compete.
Once one standard starts to dominate charging, other manufacturers will be forced to be compliant or risk losing sales.
The EV market seems too small at present for this transition - but in two years time volumes may have increased sufficiently to make it a reality.
Many decades ago, similar complexities were played out between VHS, Betamax, Phillips 2000; the same has happened with domestic IT cabling, connectors and interfaces. Mainly so far as I am aware with very limited government intervention.
Lons
Established Member
That's one of the reasons that makes the current crop of BEVs less attractive especially when they come on to the secondhand market as old technology, non standard connectors, old batteries etc. It's perfectly acceptable to stick with old video recorders or even old 8 track car players, a very different story with a vehicle you depend on for transport and probably need to charge on route. With WiFi charging being perfectly possible I wonder how many using older BEVs could afford to have those systems retrofitted. Remains to be seen though no doubt there will be cheap converters cropping up on Bangood and other well known sites, 
I would want to buy new, latest technology once the market has stabilized and standardized and so will continue with ICE until the products are a lot further down the line, unfortunately the vast majority of buyers won't have that choice because of financial circumstances so will run old ICEs well into the future or be forced into buying older and largely obsolete electric cars..
I would want to buy new, latest technology once the market has stabilized and standardized and so will continue with ICE until the products are a lot further down the line, unfortunately the vast majority of buyers won't have that choice because of financial circumstances so will run old ICEs well into the future or be forced into buying older and largely obsolete electric cars..
Droogs
Not the Sharpest Moderator in the box
I dont see why over the next few years as recharge points pop up that like fuel station they can have more than one cable and connector type fitted to cover the different standards just like petrol diesel and lpg have different nozzeles
I was astonished when I gt my BEV (Leaf) how many different cable types and charging networks there are. Yes it does need a bit of thought and planning at the moment but it is manageable, and I am sure they will steadily merge by market forces, as Terry suggests. And wireless charging does appear to be efficient and well standardised already (5 Wireless Charging Myths Exploded By WiTricity CEO)
However, I did decide to lease the Leaf for two years as no doubt there will be significant advances. When the lease company sell it at that point, it will make a very nice secondhand BEV as, thanks to lockdown, I think it will have done less than 8000 miles at that point!
However, I did decide to lease the Leaf for two years as no doubt there will be significant advances. When the lease company sell it at that point, it will make a very nice secondhand BEV as, thanks to lockdown, I think it will have done less than 8000 miles at that point!
Skydivermel
Established Member
I brought the missus a Hyundai Kona around 3 months ago, the 64kW 2020 model. Like everyone else I was perplexed at the number of different cable types. However my experience of owning and driving a BEV as of today is as follows.
1. Buy a vehicle with a good real world range. Mine has circa 175 cold weather on motorway up to 250 miles warm weather motorway. Book says 278 which is achievable if you drive sensibly.
2. You need several accounts with different EV charging suppliers as not all chargers are tap your card friendly.
3. ZapMap app is a must have.
4. Careful route planning is advisable and factor in 2 alternative stops near your planned recharge stop in case all chargers are taken.
5. Your driving style will dictate your range (efficiency)
6. Weather plays a part in both charging time and range
7. Try to not let the charge drop to below 20%. Don't rapid charge above 80% battery charge. The charge rate drops off significantly once you reach 80%
8. Higher voltage chargers will charge more quickly but cost more. Some as high as 39p kWh
9. Your home charger (mines 7.3kW) will be used for circa 80% of your charging.
10. Get onto a cheap electricity tariff. (Mines Octopus Go) 5p per kWh between 00:30 & 04:30. Car never needs more than 4 hrs to charge to 80%
11. When I work out my cost per mile on the home charger it's very close to 1.1p per mile. Or another way of looking at it is circa 155mpg.
12. The higher the fast charge (max) power the car can handle the quicker the car will charge. Mines 77kW
I've just had the first of it kind in the world all electric charging station opened up a couple of miles from me. Called GridServe. They have the below
GridServe are planning to open 100 EV stations in the UK over the next 5 years.
1. Buy a vehicle with a good real world range. Mine has circa 175 cold weather on motorway up to 250 miles warm weather motorway. Book says 278 which is achievable if you drive sensibly.
2. You need several accounts with different EV charging suppliers as not all chargers are tap your card friendly.
3. ZapMap app is a must have.
4. Careful route planning is advisable and factor in 2 alternative stops near your planned recharge stop in case all chargers are taken.
5. Your driving style will dictate your range (efficiency)
6. Weather plays a part in both charging time and range
7. Try to not let the charge drop to below 20%. Don't rapid charge above 80% battery charge. The charge rate drops off significantly once you reach 80%
8. Higher voltage chargers will charge more quickly but cost more. Some as high as 39p kWh
9. Your home charger (mines 7.3kW) will be used for circa 80% of your charging.
10. Get onto a cheap electricity tariff. (Mines Octopus Go) 5p per kWh between 00:30 & 04:30. Car never needs more than 4 hrs to charge to 80%
11. When I work out my cost per mile on the home charger it's very close to 1.1p per mile. Or another way of looking at it is circa 155mpg.
12. The higher the fast charge (max) power the car can handle the quicker the car will charge. Mines 77kW
I've just had the first of it kind in the world all electric charging station opened up a couple of miles from me. Called GridServe. They have the below
- 12 DC Chargers – up to 350kW
- 12 DC Chargers – up to 90kW
- 6 AC Chargers – up to 22kW
- 6 TESLA Superchargers
GridServe are planning to open 100 EV stations in the UK over the next 5 years.
@Skydivermel
Some interesting info there, thank you.
I wonder how successful a charging station will be though. You say 44 mins for your charge, who is going to sit around for that long? I can sort of understand it at a motorway services where you might want to have something to eat, use the toilet and stretch your legs (that being said my average stay at a services is under 15 minutes) but the equivalent of a petrol station taking 44 mins, and that is assuming there is a free charge point to use.
I filled my car with petrol today at the supermarket, I took note of the time on the cars clock, drove in at 11.41, getting ready to leave at 11.45, clicked over to 11.46 as I started moving. Yes there was a free bay to use but that is putting in about 3/4 of a tank and paying (at pump). Hard to compete with that.
Some interesting info there, thank you.
I wonder how successful a charging station will be though. You say 44 mins for your charge, who is going to sit around for that long? I can sort of understand it at a motorway services where you might want to have something to eat, use the toilet and stretch your legs (that being said my average stay at a services is under 15 minutes) but the equivalent of a petrol station taking 44 mins, and that is assuming there is a free charge point to use.
I filled my car with petrol today at the supermarket, I took note of the time on the cars clock, drove in at 11.41, getting ready to leave at 11.45, clicked over to 11.46 as I started moving. Yes there was a free bay to use but that is putting in about 3/4 of a tank and paying (at pump). Hard to compete with that.
Lons
Established Member
I've just thought of one benefit of BEVs, they aren't suitable for boy racers fitting exhausts the size of chimney pots. It won't stop the 200 db loudspeakers or plastidip sick making colours and chassis scraping the ground but then I suppose they'll be buying up all the old petrol Corsas and running them for the next 30 years.
Thinking about it maybe Bangood will start offering loud digitized exhaust noises.
Thinking about it maybe Bangood will start offering loud digitized exhaust noises.
beech1948
Established Member
So just completed two days of travel a la Tesla one journey of 60 miles another of 90 miles. Nothing of any note to report. Just plain sailing. Recharged at home so nothing to report about charge stations. Cost of travel not calculated yet.
Tesla holding up well, no faults, no fuss. Miss my old Merc S class though. The Tesla is a bit plasticy and has the aesthetics of a toy car. That;s an odd thing for me to say. I wonder if its the lack of a front grill as la ICE cars.
Mondays big trip looms. Need to start the planning soon.
Tesla holding up well, no faults, no fuss. Miss my old Merc S class though. The Tesla is a bit plasticy and has the aesthetics of a toy car. That;s an odd thing for me to say. I wonder if its the lack of a front grill as la ICE cars.
Mondays big trip looms. Need to start the planning soon.
Woody2Shoes
Impressive Member
Yebbut, 80% of the time skydiver's quicker (and a lot cheaper and more carbonfriendly) than you!
That makes no sense at all.
The influence of weather on charging time is not something I was aware of. Is this a significant effect?
Terry - Somerset
Established Member
I'll say it again at the risk of being repetitive - supermarkets and retail parks will install charging stations for the same reasons that they originally installed petrol pumps - to get punters into the store to do their shopping.
If a one hour charge gets a car from 20% to 80% charge - the charging problem goes goes away. Most will only ever need to charge once or twice per week.
It's a competitive world. Supermarkets will make a much bigger margin on food and other sales than they do on fuel (be it oil or electricity). Fuel is simply an (almost) loss leader to attract spending power.
If a one hour charge gets a car from 20% to 80% charge - the charging problem goes goes away. Most will only ever need to charge once or twice per week.
It's a competitive world. Supermarkets will make a much bigger margin on food and other sales than they do on fuel (be it oil or electricity). Fuel is simply an (almost) loss leader to attract spending power.
chris watford
Established Member
I have much admiration for those who have purchased an electric vehicle. Really helpful to hear their experiences in use as i will need a new vehicle in the next few years or so
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I think that is true for most people. There must be, though, a cut-off point where the lower running costs eventually offset the higher purchase price. If you do enough miles and keep the car long enough the EV might eventually be cheaper. I have seen a couple of calculations like that but not studied them. Did you look at it that way, or was the high up-front cost enough to rule it out for you? It would be interesting to see the way you approached it.
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