Electric vehicles - again

[Jacob]

.......

There was a time when a lot more freight was carried by the railways, a lot of the goods yards were closed in the late sixties when there was a downturn in trade, .....

More an upturn in road traffic thanks to motorways, roadbuilding and the motor industry

 

[Jameshow]

If every RDC or cluster of RDC (regional distribution centre) was served by a rail terminal then the first step of goods shipped in from overseas could be done by train. I'm guessing transport managers like the ease of lorries.

 

[sploo]

It is way off the topic of electric cars, but yes, I have long wondered by long(ish) distance cargo delivery isn't done using rail and distribution centres. Rail feels like an ideal system to move a large number of heavy cargo containers a long distance across land (vs HGVs). Perhaps the rail infrastructure isn't there, or maybe the logistics of actually moving cargo onto rail and back off onto HGVs is actually more time consuming than going straight to HGVs?

 

[Geoff_S]

It does exist apparently. The UK's Leading Intermodal Rail Freight Operator | Freightliner

I know that I've seen TV programs featuring Eddie Stobbart and container rail services, but I think from a bit of Googling that he may have pulled out.

 

[Terry - Somerset]

Rail is hugely inflexible.

The network of main lines and stations date back to Victorian times, modified by Beeching (amongst others) who closed lines with low volume use. Few new routes in the last 100 years.

Stations are not in the right place - firmly rooted in city centre locations. Establishing freight transfer and road access for local delivery would be costly (at best). Some met particular industrial needs which have long since vanished - eg: coal mining, agriculture, steel, potteries etc.

Simplistically new or extended rail lines should be no more difficult than a major road - but roads can accommodate steeper gradients, sharper bends, and include roundabouts and traffic lights to control intersections. Major rail needs costly bridges or tunnels.

Rail carries only trains on fixed lines. Users have to travel to departure points. On arrival at the destination, further travel to their journey end (walk, bus, taxi). Road carries freight, commuters, bicycles, tourists, tradesmen, domestic deliveries etc etc. They are completely flexible in providing a door-to-door capability.

I doubt whether a 19th century technology can be made fit for the 21st without leaving it seriously compromised. Far better to implement that which will be fit for purpose for the rest of the century making best use of the technology options available.

A proposition - existing rails should be scrapped. Lines tarmacked over, used exclusively for autonomously driven freight and passenger traffic, powered by induction loops (of some sort) and designed to rejoin the normal network for the leg to final destination. Eliminates most of the flaws in the existing network, removes heavy and volume traffic from the roads.

 

[Jacob]

It is way off the topic of electric cars, .....

Not if you have an integrated transport system with energy saving as a priority.
It'd have to be state run - private enterprise can't do it. Battery EVs will probably end up for local use only.

 

[powertools]

I was born in Luton 70 years ago when Luton was a thriving industrial town I remember as a child a large railway goods yard and 3 wheel (I think that they were called scarabs or something like) that delivering the goods from the yard to factorys all over Luton.

 

[Spectric]

that delivering the goods from the yard to factorys all over Luton.

That could be a modern problem in that we no longer have large industrial towns but more often smaller sized industry so more points needing deliveries.

 

[TRITON]

Cars of the futureeeeeee

I think we'll all going to struggle getting supplies from the sawmill.

 

[clogs]

Scamll Scarab, little artic truck or mechanical horse

turns on a tanner...if u can remember them....
I can remember as a very young boy, my uncle used to drive one for Brit rail in Willesden, London...

 

[Ozi]

Toyota gets £11.3m to build hydrogen-powered pick-up truck in Derbyshire

And to compliment EVs for the jobs they won't handle. These fuel cells are really good, if run on Green hydrogen, a small part of the answer to how we store renewable energy. Just a shame it's not an English company, although they do employ a lot of people in this country.

 

[John on the Wirral]

I think it's Toyota that''s not producing any more elecric cars for the home market after this year. The problem is,I think,that they use anthrocite to produce the green hydrogen which they have imported from Australia but now have produced special tankers to transport the hydrogen that Australia will produce using their anthrocite. Clever as they will have a bigger footprint than Japan!

 

[rogxwhit]

A proposition - existing rails should be scrapped. Lines tarmacked over, used exclusively for autonomously driven freight

Whoa there! With rail there is the reduced rolling resistance of steel on steel compared to those squishy things called tyres, which presumably saves energy. Think of containers, logs ... and think of a quarry train of 22 wagons (as is commonly seen) carrying 75t per wagon - that's a payload of 1,650t pulled by one loco. Each wagon itself weighing about 25t, so the whole train weighs some 2,200t without the loco. You're going to put that on tyres??? :-(

 

[Terry - Somerset]

Whoa there! With rail there is the reduced rolling resistance of steel on steel compared to those squishy things called tyres, which presumably saves energy. Think of containers, logs ... and think of a quarry train of 22 wagons (as is commonly seen) carrying 75t per wagon - that's a payload of 1,650t pulled by one loco. Each wagon itself weighing about 25t, so the whole train weighs some 2,200t without the loco. You're going to put that on tyres??? :-(

Look at it another way - UK freight movements in billion tonne kilometres - road 77%, water 14%, rail 9%.

Complete elimination of rail lines may not be the end game, but rail freight is small and a large part of that probably on Eurotunnel to a UK distribution depot.

Rolling resistance issues may be real but incidental - not a justification for retaining rail.

 

[Ozi]

Look at it another way - UK freight movements in billion tonne kilometres - road 77%, water 14%, rail 9%.

Complete elimination of rail lines may not be the end game, but rail freight is small and a large part of that probably on Eurotunnel to a UK distribution depot.

Rolling resistance issues may be real but incidental - not a justification for retaining rail.

Strange argument if rail is the most efficient, even if it were the best 2% why loose it? Personally I have faith in the profit driven highly competitive transport industry to be always looking for the most profitable way to operate, which with the current cost of energy will be increasingly environmentally friendly....ish, well a bit.... I hope.

 

[niemeyjt]

Charging capacity is still an issue:

Tesla owners forced to wait in three-hour queues during Christmas car-charging chaos​

see: Tesla owners forced to wait in three-hour queues during Christmas car-charging chaos

 

[flying haggis]

If this guys figures are correct Royal Mail will make its self bankrupt simply by changing to electric vans !!!