Effortless sharpenning

[PerranOak]

All I want is a plane blade ground to 25deg, square and sharp - without having to grind away for hours.

I just got rid of a Dakota water-stone sharpenning "system". I took hours to grind, was never square, required 50lbf pressure and had laughable "instructions"!

I notice that some of the grinders have wheels that are 50mm wide. Why!? Plane blades are 2" (so, 50.8mm) wide!!!

Sorry to be a moaner but can anyone recommend a "system" to give square, sharp, 25deg plane blades that is powered please?

Ta.

 

[Mattty]

http://www.worksharptools.com/product.asp?specific=137

I have one. It is excellent.

There are a few comments reviews on here if you can fathom the search tool.

Sold by rutlands and poss others?
HTH

 

[wizer]

I'd agree with Matty. Or I'm just about to invest in one of these:

Which is probably over kill if you're not doing turning as well as flat work (it deal with both).

 

[PerranOak]

Mattty: does that one work nicely? What is the rate of material removal like?

wizer: funnily enough, I'd just been looking at this from a Google search!

 

[OPJ]

Tom, I'm pretty certain you could do most turning tools on the Work Sharp 3000. You've probably seen the videos, but you can do longer gouges and things freehand below the grinder, using the slotted wheel. Skew chisels and things could also be done above, using either the toolrest or a standard honing guide.

There is the wide blade attachment but it's essentially a decent honing with setting gauge and an adjustable platform that should be levelled so it is flush with the top of the abrasive. If you already had a decent honing guide (like the Veritas MkII, for example), I've advise you to save the money and build your own adjustable platform from a scrap of ply or MDF. Esssentially, that's all you get. Although, there's always the possibility they may be developing other jigs for the future...

 

[Mattty]

Mattty: does that one work nicely? What is the rate of material removal like?

wizer: funnily enough, I'd just been looking at this from a Google search!

Material is removed nice and quickly, but is also kept cool.
I'd advise finding someone local to have a look at one. The reason i like it is it's very quick, mess free, repeatable without messing with jigs and cheap once you own the machine.

 

[Aled Dafis]

I'm another advocate of the Worksharp. I've recently been using it with the 3M papers from Workshop Heaven and the results are amazing! whilst also being amazinly fast and hassle free.

For Bench chisels, I just use the 20/25/30 pre-set gauge on the underside of the plate and it works a treat, giving good repeatable results every time.

As for bench plane irons, I "grind" all irons under 2" on the underside of the plates as per chisels, and then mount the iron in a cheap Eclipse type guide and use that as a simple jig to rest on the crossbar above the glass plate to hone, a little pressure on either side of the iron gives a gentle camber as required. For blades wider than 2", I just use the Eclipse guide above the glass plate for grinding and honing.

I currently use a Tormek for turning tools, but had I not managed to aquire that very cheaply, I would have definately bought the Sorby offering, it really is a very well screwed together bit of kit. However, I just can't see it being as good as the worksharp for honing straight chisels and plane blades, I'm not convinced that you could produce a repeatable fine camber to the degree required for high end smoothing work.

Cheers

Aled

 

[wizer]

I'm going for the ProEdge predominantly because of it's repeatable setup for turning tools. With the worksharp, you don't have as much repeatability. I'm not in the least bit interested in sharpening freehand. I'm sure the worksharp is very good for bench tools. But the ProEdge is more versatile and repeatable for both tasks. Obviously the benefit of both systems is that you don't have a wheel that is continually reducing in diameter.

 

[PerranOak]

For blades wider than 2", I just use the Eclipse guide above the glass plate for grinding and honing.

Aled: so you can't use the underside for 2" irons?

Also, can you get replacement abrasives cheaply?

I guess any old sheet of wet&dry cut to shape would do?

 

[Aled Dafis]

For blades wider than 2", I just use the Eclipse guide above the glass plate for grinding and honing.

Aled: so you can't use the underside for 2" irons?

Also, can you get replacement abrasives cheaply?

I guess any old sheet of wet&dry cut to shape would do?

No, the underside is limited to 2", by it's adjustable sides.

Any fine self adhesive paper would do, but the ones I've been using lately are these from Workshop Heaven, and I find them to be excellent, the 1 micron paper gives and amazing edge.

http://workshopheaven.com/cgi-bin/c...t&ref=Scary+Sharpening&catstr=HOME:Sharpening

Cheers

Aled

 

[PerranOak]

Sorry Aled, I'm being a bit slow.

I have several planes with exactly 2" blades. Can these go underneath?

 

[Aled Dafis]

Yes, 2" blades will fit underneath, but larger ones for the "half sizes" (4 1/2, 5 1/2 etc.) and the Veritas bevel up family won't. It's not really a big issue in any case, as the eclipse guide is a quick and easy fix.

Cheers

Aled

 

[PerranOak]

Cheers mate.

wizer: do you think that the edge will be as square since the belt will tend to bow? Also, are the belts pricey and will they always be available? Let's face it, I can't get games for my ZX Spectrum any more even though it works fine! :lol:

 

[lwilliams]

All I want is a plane blade ground to 25deg, square and sharp - without having to grind away for hours.

I just got rid of a Dakota water-stone sharpening "system". I took hours to grind, was never square, required 50lbf pressure and had laughable "instructions"!

I notice that some of the grinders have wheels that are 50mm wide. Why!? Plane blades are 2" (so, 50.8mm) wide!!!

Sorry to be a moaner but can anyone recommend a "system" to give square, sharp, 25deg plane blades that is powered please?

Ta.

Ahhh, man. This is one of the things I find so frustrating on Internet forums.

Sharpening by traditional methods evolved so that it truly is almost effortless. Then along came all the gimmicks and "better ideas." I know as I write this that I'm just p!ssing in the wind and I can't help you because you've been convinced you need gimmicks and "better ideas."

The reality is that the bevel is easy. Square, cambered or what ever--it's simple. The difficult part of sharpening is getting the flat faces flat and to where you can easily maintain that flat face. Once you have flat faces and a uniform system to keep them that way sharpening becomes just an all to brief but pleasant and rewarding break from your bench.

I'd sit here and write it all out again but I think I'll go try something that's more likely to succeed, like talking all the rocks in my yard to line themselves up into nice little rows.

 

[bugbear]

All I want is a plane blade ground to 25deg, square and sharp - without having to grind away for hours.

Unless you're removing nicks, or restoring an old blade in poor condition, you shouldn't need to grind very often at all - so grinders aren't very important to sharpening.

BugBear

 

[Eric The Viking]

I just got rid of a Dakota water-stone sharpening "system". I took hours to grind, was never square, required 50lbf pressure and had laughable "instructions"!

Was that their Tormek copy, or the flat one?

I bought the 'Tormekkalike' and I'm pretty pleased with it:



I can shave with the plane irons and get a mirror finish on pine and Iroko with a #5 (Jap laminated blade, admittedly), and I'm getting pretty good at a touch-up hone on the leather strop wheel.

I do get better results with Scary Sharp and 2500-grit W+D, but the Dakota isn't very messy in comparison, and is jolly quick. I'm still waiting for the accessory kit though (their web site shows out of stock). The wheel isn't marvellous - it does need dressing, which is one reason why I need the kit to arrive!

When the wheel needs replacing I'll put a Tormek one on it, assuming it fits.

The only drawback as far as I can see is that I can easily get a straight, flat, mirror-finish bevel with scary sharp, but there are still slight grinding marks with the Dakota. It doesn't *seem* to make a huge difference though (I know it must). I still get transparent shavings that float off in a draught, and the finish needs no sanding at all (would need to roughen it considerably for painting).

I know it's cheap, but it does work.

 

[Benchwayze]

All I want is a plane blade ground to 25deg, square and sharp - without having to grind away for hours.

Unless you're removing nicks, or restoring an old blade in poor condition, you shouldn't need to grind very often at all - so grinders aren't very important to sharpening.

BugBear

=D>

But, if you really need power grinding that ticks all your boxes, get a Tormek system.

No problems, as long as you keep the stone dressed properly.

regards
John

 

[PerranOak]

It was a flat Dakota one.

I guess I was hoping that it would help me get my chisels to 25deg with minimal effort.

After that, I sharpen by hand but every so often they will need to be re-ground or am I wrong?

I appreciate that it shouldn't be a big deal but as I have very little time for woodworking, I want to spend that time WOODworking not metalworking.

 

[OPJ]

After that, I sharpen by hand but every so often they will need to be re-ground or am I wrong?

You're not wrong. But, as BugBear said earlier, a blade shouldn't need a complete regrinding unless it's damaged in some way. I assume you're referring to the point where the secondary bevel becomes too wide. In which case, you only need to work a bit more on the primary bevel again, only enough to reduce the width of the secondary bevel. Some people may hone the blade five or six times, or more, before attending to the 25° bevel. Some even do it each and every time they hone at 30°!

 

[bugbear]

After that, I sharpen by hand but every so often they will need to be re-ground or am I wrong?

You're not wrong. But, as BugBear said earlier, a blade shouldn't need a complete regrinding unless it's damaged in some way. I assume you're referring to the point where the secondary bevel becomes too wide. In which case, you only need to work a bit more on the primary bevel again, only enough to reduce the width of the secondary bevel. Some people may hone the blade five or six times, or more, before attending to the 25° bevel. Some even do it each and every time they hone at 30°!

Good $DEITY - I normally get 15-20 goes at my 30 degree secondary, before hacking some meat off the 25 degree primary.

Of course, using an (Eclipse) jig allows me to hit the same secondary accurately everytime, allowing me to hone the edge without removing any more metal than I need to. This saves time, effort and tool steel.

BugBear