Edge joining boards (or pieces thereof)

[Bm101]

Numpty question from a numpty: how much glue are you putting on the joint? I have been working on putting enough glue on to not be able to see the grain through the goop. A fair amount, in other words. Then clamp it up, and curse and swear trying to clean up the mess with a damp cloth. Getting the balance between having enough glue to achieve "squeeze-out" when clamping, and having far too much glue, is proving to be a skill that I am struggling to master, but too much seems better than not enough.

As usual. Not advice. Noob Disclaimer etc etc.
I use a wallpaper seam roller for flat joints. Not perfect. You can buy expensive glue rollers. But it does help a beginner like me get an even application quickly. Under presuure you can throw it out the way and clean it after and you can get them easily and cheaply.
Might help.

 

[Steve Maskery]

Has anyone worked with Tulipwood? What was your experience in its joinery?

Tulipwood (AKA Canary Whitewood, AKA American Poplar) is a very friendly wood. Available in good-sized clear sections, easy to work, stains and pants very nicely. It's a bit soft to the touch, you can ding it with your fingernail. It often has a green tinge when freshly cut, maybe with black streaks. They both fade VERY quickly (hours) in good sunlight. Indoors it mellows to a lovely honey colour.

 

[Ttrees]

.......Please see the attached pictures.......

.The gap is formed by the dried up glue residue. Before, it was very smooth and flat (as you can see in the unglued portion)
So much that I was very pleased to see two pieces of timber as I've seen only on videos where they perfectly mate up!

.
That doesn't rule out, out of square though.
It looks to me like you could have made a flat panel with a non square mated joint, but not flipped one of the pieces around before gluing it up on a flat surface resulting in the error doubling instead of canceling each other out.
Tom

 

[MikeG.]

......The gap is formed by the dried up glue residue...........

That residue should be flat and extremely thin if there was no gap when it dried. The fact that it isn't is suggestive of what I said earlier, that there was a gap, probably caused by non-square edges.

It is an absolute certainty that the issue isn't the wood. It is either with the glue itself (which I doubt because it seems to have dried hard), or with the mating surfaces. You've had loads of advice on here, and plenty of time to try again. Have you tried a rubbed joint yet?

 

[bp122]

......The gap is formed by the dried up glue residue...........

That residue should be flat and extremely thin if there was no gap when it dried. The fact that it isn't is suggestive of what I said earlier, that there was a gap, probably caused by non-square edges.

It is an absolute certainty that the issue isn't the wood. It is either with the glue itself (which I doubt because it seems to have dried hard), or with the mating surfaces. You've had loads of advice on here, and plenty of time to try again. Have you tried a rubbed joint yet?

.......Please see the attached pictures.......

.The gap is formed by the dried up glue residue. Before, it was very smooth and flat (as you can see in the unglued portion)
So much that I was very pleased to see two pieces of timber as I've seen only on videos where they perfectly mate up!

.
That doesn't rule out, out of square though.
It looks to me like you could have made a flat panel with a non square mated joint, but not flipped one of the pieces around before gluing it up on a flat surface resulting in the error doubling instead of canceling each other out.
Tom

I couldn't try it last night. I guess you guys are correct that there may have been a gap which I failed to see. This is good for me because it is forcing me to fix my vise to the table (something that I should have done days ago!) and then I can use my plane to square off the edges and try all of this one more time. Good list of things for the weekend though!

 

[MattyT]

I'm intrigued to see if more clamping pressure helps with your next attempt. Keep us informed.

 

[lurker]

I think Ply is even worse than timber for pushsticks.

MDF breaks nicely in the event of a kick (I would imagine) and you can happily run the end into the blade for "follow through", which I think adds to safety.

 

[lurker]

Strangely I had a rub joint fail on me yesterday, which was a rare thing for me.
The PVA had remained slightly "milky"

I decided the wood might be a bit oily (although it looks dry).

I have just de greased and am going to use castamite as I think the wood might be
slightly gappy too. Because of the face I don't want to re plane.

 

[Woody2Shoes]

PVA glue has a surprisingly short shelf-life and can quickly become useless if ever exposed to frost.

What make of PVA did you use, is it 'in date' (most of the good makes have a DoM printed on them), and have you been keeping it in a heated environment?

Like other posters, your photo suggests to me that there was a gap when the glue dried in the joint - which would definitely have weakened it a fair bit - but I'm wondering if the glue residue is strong or weak (it looks a bit flaky/chalky to my eye and makes me wonder what condition the glue was in), how tough is the glue residue (it should be resistant to a fingernail)?

Cheers, W2S

 

[Trainee neophyte]

Numpty question from a numpty: how much glue are you putting on the joint? I have been working on putting enough glue on to not be able to see the grain through the goop. A fair amount, in other words. Then clamp it up, and curse and swear trying to clean up the mess with a damp cloth. Getting the balance between having enough glue to achieve "squeeze-out" when clamping, and having far too much glue, is proving to be a skill that I am struggling to master, but too much seems better than not enough.

As usual. Not advice. Noob Disclaimer etc etc.
I use a wallpaper seam roller for flat joints. Not perfect. You can buy expensive glue rollers. But it does help a beginner like me get an even application quickly. Under presuure you can throw it out the way and clean it after and you can get them easily and cheaply.
Might help.

All new knowledge is good knowledge, as I know nothing! Still working towards considering myself amateur, but a long way to go yet. Will try the roller, and see. Currently I grab some scrap off the floor and use that - hardly scientific. I tried using my finger, but no - people on YouTube can be weird.

 

[bp122]

PVA glue has a surprisingly short shelf-life and can quickly become useless if ever exposed to frost.

What make of PVA did you use, is it 'in date' (most of the good makes have a DoM printed on them), and have you been keeping it in a heated environment?

Like other posters, your photo suggests to me that there was a gap when the glue dried in the joint - which would definitely have weakened it a fair bit - but I'm wondering if the glue residue is strong or weak (it looks a bit flaky/chalky to my eye and makes me wonder what condition the glue was in), how tough is the glue residue (it should be resistant to a fingernail)?

Cheers, W2S

I used a cheap weatherproof PVA from Toolstation, which I had bought sometime last year when I didn't know about anything in woodworking. The glue residue was a bit flaky when I tried to clean up with a plane.

I'm intrigued to see if more clamping pressure helps with your next attempt. Keep us informed.

Here is the update:

I set about "squaring and truing" the two edges to eliminate bad practice on my part.
And I used the same glue again.

This time, it took me a good 40 mins PER EDGE, trying to square it with a plane (stanley No.4) - It didn't help!!
I was so focused on getting the edge perpendicular to either sides and flat that I forgot I was planing the pieces into a trapezium from the lovely rectangle it was - it just screams NOOB here.

After that I decided to get the big gun out and decided to plane it using the electric planer I had lying around in my in-law's garage, No joy there either - still kept planing it like a router with a roundover bit!

Then used the other side of it as a reference and cut out a straight edge on my table saw (Remember my other post where I had issues with my table saw setup - I found out what it was. The supplied blade insert is cast aluminium and it is distorted like melted plastic. My TS blade is actually perpendicular to the cast table, but the insert, despite the adjustment screws in it, kicks the work piece up to give me a tapered cut of about 85 degrees. )

Anyway, after a bit of "cut the same edge from top and bottom face" method, I got an edge which was square and didn't let any light through.
Used the same PVA, rubbed the two pieces in with the glue, this time clamped with one of my large cast iron clamps (as my other clamps weren't wide enough), set it aside for 4 - 5 hours. No gap on it, I planed the joined area to see no clear line of joint. The two pieces have bowed ever so slightly, but the joint is ridiculously strong - proving that it was indeed what you guys called it - bad prep!

Although this must be a good laugh for everyone here, including myself, I was pleased that I finally got a joint as I've seen on tons of YT videos - even if it took me better part of 3 hours to do it

P.S - In photography, people often talk about photographers who have all the expensive gear imaginable but still can't take a good photo. **Ahem Ahem**, yours truly!

 

[woodbloke66]

Have you read Custard's rather excellent sticky on this subject? It all makes sense once you can see how to do it properly - Rob

 

[lurker]

If by cheap PVA from Toolstation you mean Everbond 502.
This is what I use and find it excellent.

I usually buy a new 1 litre bottle in April (after the frosts) dispense about a quarter into another container and then keep the rest in the house.
The (meagre) remains from the previous year is binned.
A litre tends to last me a year and I am wary of frost (in the shed) but have never had problems.

You will note (comment earlier in your post) I had a failed rub joint last week and the first thing I did was tested the glue on some scrap and am sure it was not the glue at fault.

 

[woodbloke66]

If by cheap PVA from Toolstation you mean Everbond 502.
This is what I use and find it excellent.

Try the Everbuild D4 next time...fandabby stuff - Rob