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A lot of this must just come down to the need to make money and more money, you do notice that there is a lack of pride in almost any area you look be it builders or people in general as demonstrated by the huge volumes of junk thrown out of cars. No one seems to care about anything anymore, do they actually believe the future is so bad that nothing is worth worrying about anymore. Have we actually made life so fast paced that we don't have time for the detail, it is a throw away culture where people try and only deliver the bare minimum rather than delivering an outstanding service but how have we got into such a mess when even the simple things like a roof leak becomes a difficult task. A lot of the issues must come down to training and the sort of industries we once had where quality was just black and white, right or wrong with no that will do attitude. Thinking back to lacing looms for GEC, the inspector would use calipers to ensure all the lacing knots were evenly spaced and if he was not pleased then you had to redo the lacing, this sort of thinking sets you up for life so what you deliver is the same quality whether you can see it or not and you don't look for the easy fix it quick solution but something that is long term.
I also wonder if part of the problem is supply and demand. Many youngsters these days seem to think they should be paid a premium wage from the off and aren’t too keen to graft for it. This makes the trades unattractive (hard work and often low starting wages)
This in turn leads to a shortage of experienced tradesmen.
Those that are good can command higher prices and are hard to get hold of as they are already fully occupied serving a loyal customer base.
 
Regretably not necesarily proof that the next time you need to call them you'll get the same :cry:

We must be lucky, The extension was ten years ago, we needed another room plastering a year ago so phoned the same guy. Who should turn up but the very same lad who had been the apprentice ten years back. Now he is a big geezer & obviously been trained well. Job went same as before, first class!

On the other hand Plumbers or heating engineers as they prefer to be known these days are far more likely to be prima donna's!
 
If you de skill a trade then you get a lot more cowboys simply because they can get away with doing the job. Look back at when plumbers used only copper pipe and a lot of soldered fittings along with the big manual floor standing benders, it took skill and experience to get repetative neat bends but now with plastic and push fit it seems any tom **** and harry are throwing pipework into houses because they can.
 
If you de skill a trade then you get a lot more cowboys simply because they can get away with doing the job. Look back at when plumbers used only copper pipe and a lot of soldered fittings along with the big manual floor standing benders, it took skill and experience to get repetative neat bends but now with plastic and push fit it seems any tom **** and harry are throwing pipework into houses because they can.
it's true, my grandad was a plumber for 50+ years, he did a 7 year apprenticeship! he died in the early 80s so never even got to work with plastic pipes as far as I know, sadly he passed away a couple of years before I was born, the skill level needed was much higher.
 
On the other hand Plumbers or heating engineers as they prefer to be known these days are far more likely to be prima donna's!

Don't get me started on (some) of them. A chap I know, I always assumed he was an expert - he'd been in the trade for decades - always came across that way.

Lately, the penny has dropped - better late than never - is that a lot of it is bluff and bluster and he doesn't know as much as he makes out. Not just on heating but other stuff too.

Let's say the "friendship" is waning - getting too old to put up with BS and folk who are "selling it like there's no tomorrow".
 
hate to say it but there's very few tradesmen I trust anymore, hope you get it sorted out.
Starting off as an young adult, I was broke and couldn't pay folk, even to service my car, so I learnt the skills. As a (new at the time) homeowner - it was a similar story. Sadly there were no Haynes manuals or YouTube for houses\homes then. LOL

Now, it's I don't trust many folk & the few that would do it right\well - the cost would still be eye-watering (they have bills to pay so I don't begrudge them anything), so I do stuff myself.
 
Starting off as an young adult, I was broke and couldn't pay folk, even to service my car, so I learnt the skills. As a (new at the time) homeowner - it was a similar story. Sadly there were no Haynes manuals or YouTube for houses\homes then. LOL

Now, it's I don't trust many folk & the few that would do it right\well - the cost would still be eye-watering (they have bills to pay so I don't begrudge them anything), so I do stuff myself.
I try and do DIY where possible but in some cases like lime plastering and re-wiring a house, you need an expert. I actually have a relative who learnt how to do plumbing just through watching youtube videos and set up a business, it didn't last though not surprisingly...
 
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I try and do DIY where possible but in some cases like lime plastering and re-wiring a house, you need an expert. I actually have a relative who learnt how to do plumbing just through watching youtube videos, it didn't last though not surprisingly...
No lime plastering to do in our house thankfully - but I did have only 1 room upstairs with the original coving, got some quotes to replicate it in the other rooms and decided to learn.

Ran a reverse mould on the bench and successfully made some lengths and fitted them. Once fettled - they look like they have always been there.

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Need to replicate the downstairs coving (which is more intricate) in the dining room, but that looks like it has to be done in-situ - so that's another thing on the "to do list". 😄

Plumbing - I'm OK with that, can bend pipe and solder more than well enough and never had any issues. Been known to "adjust" an electrical circuit or 2 in the past. LOL

The house does need a re-wire - it's on my list of things to do\get done.
 
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You will often find that the best and most expensive tradesmen don't make any more money that the cheap ones. Better materials are used, time is taken to produce top class work, taxes will be up to date and often vat is charged. Unfortunately there are so many folk that can't afford top dollar so keep the cheapo bodgers in business.
 
What can be done to change this attitude of ripoff and run?
Don't look for and accept the lowest quote. Strongest reason for ripping off and running is finding that you have hopelessly underpriced
 
Don't look for and accept the lowest quote. Strongest reason for ripping off and running is finding that you have hopelessly underpriced
Sadly for many folk when it comes to some jobs - like say re-roofing, they may not settle on the lowest quote, may ask to see reference, etc - it's still no guarantee that the job will be done well\properly.

For the simple reason, a lay person doesn't know how it should be done properly\well in the first place. And they can't be expected to know.

They are relying on the tradesman to know. Some of whom won't actually know how to do it well\properly and just "do it" how they were taught\learnt - whilst others have no interest in doing it well\properly, just wanting to maximise profit.
 
A friend of mine had a builder do a fantastic job on an extension to extend his kitchen and create a utility room. A lovely job.

A couple of years later, he had the builder back to build a double storey extension on the other side of his house.

Guess how that ended?
 
I know a good plasterer but a bit put off by the fact he will give you two prices, the first to just plaster the room and the second to plaster it and make a good job :(
I have only heard of the following once, although it rings true with the above. A chap asked the plasterer to do the job AND mist coat it - so his decorator didn't have any further preparation to do.

Maybe the plasterer was cheaper than the finishing trade in that instance.

Not 100% sure though.
 
my parents had a local cowboy near them build a conservatory, it was the lowest quote, by saving a few thousand you'd think they'd save money, but it's been terrible since, glass panels moving, leaks and just generally ultra low standards, it would have been worth paying a few thousand more for the other guy who did know what he's doing to avoid all these future problems, the more expensive guy only did conservatories and nothing else, the cowboy that did it was just a builder, the poorly built conservatory de-values the property in a big way so it's simply not worth it in the long run, you end up paying for it in the end.
 
What annoyed me about my catalogue of complaints was that often you have no control of circumstances.

The roofers, for example - they're a well-respected and far from cheap company, and our choice...but they farmed out the guttering job to their choice of third party.
Likewise, the scaffolding outfit involved. The roofing company involved don't have their own scaffolding, so you trust their choice...but for all you know, it may well be the first time they've ever used them.
I have complained to the roofers again, and to be fair to them, they sent some character out on Christmas Eve to check the problems. He made all the right noises, and then confirmed that they'd be closed until 9 January. Suffice to say, not a word/contact since...

The monocouche render company - again, far from the cheapest outfit, but they subbed the removal of existing render to some gash outfit who took nearly three weeks to do what was expected to take one. I got home on day one to find that no work had taken place. Why? They'd expected someone to be in. Why did they need someone to be at home? To run their jack-hammer from our plug socket! You couldn't make it up! I refused, and it took them 2 further days to source a powerful enough petrol generator! Yet again, a different scaffolding company involved - their choice yet again.
Yesterday I managed to contact the render outfit regarding the dry verges falling off. It wasn't them who fitted them. It was someone to do with the scaffolding company.....and who were they? I've no idea, so again the run around starts, as I've now got to contact the roofers to see who they used....
 
we've had a couple of neigbours whom have had to have their street connection replaced. My understanding is they dig up the street connection, tie on to the old water line and pull it through to the house. one neighbour,s street connection was crimped by thefoundation, so they had to dig up whole driveway.- took 3 years before the ditch settled enough to repour concrete. In baseball that ould be batting 500
 
I needed a new water line from the street to my house so decided to dig it in myself and just get a plumber to make the connection to the street main. Not really a good idea for an old man as the trench was 55 m long, but since I hadn't done anything like this before, went online to check on the rules and regulations. The plumber arrived just as I was ready to back fill the trench so he had a look at my handiwork. 'Why did you go so deep?' He asked. 'Its 60cm deep.' I replied, 'that's the regulation depth.'
'Is it? I didn't know that...'
Use a tradesman, they say. Get a proper job done.
All water pipes need to be at least 2’ 6” which is the frost line or else there is a risk of freezing.
 
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