Ebay problem

[Jacob]

Sold an item on Ebay. It's a musical instrument. A balalaika in fact.
No prob posting it in UK with insurance but the UK address is for a pick-up point for export.
Past experience with Ebay packlink and other couriers is that any damage or loss after it's left the pick up point will still rebound on me even if I've delivered it safely to the UK address. This means that it's at risk unless I go to big effort with a wooden packing case etc, which is not what I am being paid for.
Waddya think?

 

[Gordon Tarling]

Cancel the sale.

G.

 

[Yojevol]

It's all set out here in the Global Shipping Policy (GSP)

and in particular:-
Risk of Loss
The passing of risk of loss or damage to a GSP Item shall be treated in accordance with any statutory right your Buyer may have under such laws as shall be applicable to that transaction. In all other cases and/or in the absence of statutory provision governing this aspect, the risk of loss or damage to a GSP Item shall remain with you until the GSP Item is accepted at the UK Shipping Centre or has been returned to you by Pitney Bowes from the UK Shipping Centre. Subject to any statutory rights your Buyer may have, the risk of loss or damage to a GSP Item shall transfer to your Buyer when the GSP Item leaves the UK Shipping Centre for export.
Brian

 

[Jacob]

It's all set out here in the Global Shipping Policy (GSP)

and in particular:-
Risk of Loss
The passing of risk of loss or damage to a GSP Item shall be treated in accordance with any statutory right your Buyer may have under such laws as shall be applicable to that transaction. In all other cases and/or in the absence of statutory provision governing this aspect, the risk of loss or damage to a GSP Item shall remain with you until the GSP Item is accepted at the UK Shipping Centre or has been returned to you by Pitney Bowes from the UK Shipping Centre. Subject to any statutory rights your Buyer may have, the risk of loss or damage to a GSP Item shall transfer to your Buyer when the GSP Item leaves the UK Shipping Centre for export.
Brian

Right. Thanks for that. Except when I last exported anything and it got damaged after they'd received at UK end, I couldn't get anything from Ebay.
PS just been looking at your link trying to find out about ineligible items but you get lost in a circle of links and get nowhere. They aren't very helpful!

 

[thetyreman]

make sure it's extremely well packed, I'd make a custom cardboard box and pack it with industrial bubble wrap, that's the only way to fully protect instruments and even then no guarantees, it's the kind of thing that will get damaged easily in the post.

 

[shed9]

Be aware that your cover may be ineligible if it is listed under certain categories so not just what it is but where it is listed within Ebay. I understand musical instruments are eligible so long as they fit the weight and dimensions restrictions.

Also be careful if you have named the maker of the instrument as this can potentially put you in the (albeit very rare) situation where your buyer can dispute the authenticity of the instrument and possibly inform Ebay that they think it's fake. In the not-too-distant past Ebay used to just automatically reimburse the buyer and advise them to destroy the 'fake' with no proof of destruction. This was quite common for instruments as even experts will often disagree on provenance and as such Ebay would side on the buyer because of this.

 

[bp122]

Cancel the sale.

G.

+1

If I am selling anything that is fragile or too expensive or something the buyer ought to try out first, I say collection only or courier collection at the buyer's risk.

It is not worth the hassle trying to get things sorted with eBay / PayPal

 

[shed9]

Export of a wooden instrument may also incur CITES depending on where it's going and that is just a skeet shoot in my experience, admittedly though that was some time ago now.

 

[Yojevol]

I last exported anything and it got damaged after they'd received at UK end, I couldn't get anything from Ebay.

But presumably you had been paid fully at that point

 

[Jacob]

But presumably you had been paid fully at that point

I had to accept a return, give full refund, got negative feedback, even though the damage was caused while in transit with Ebay Packlink

 

[Sideways]

Pitney Bowes open packages to inspect and don't repack them properly. All your efforts at careful packing can go out the window.
Personally, I won't sell through Ebay GSP. It's just not worth the hassle. I stopped buying from the USA because it's too much of a lottery as a buyer as well. Both parties lose out while ebay and co make money.

As a matter of routine I photograph everything I sell as 3 or 4 points during the packing process so I have evidence beyond doubt in case of problems. I've never needed it but the day I don't will be that day ....

I once had a surreal moment waiting for a flight.
I looked out of the departures window and one of these was standing on the tarmac, running, fully loaded with suitcases that wound their way to the top and dropped several feet to the concrete. I assume the ground staff had pulled it back from a plane before the loading was done, but maybe the plane taxied off with it's doors open
You couldn't make it up...

 

[DrPhill]

Export of a wooden instrument may also incur CITES depending on where it's going and that is just a skeet shoot in my experience, admittedly though that was some time ago now.

I think that there is now a specific exemption for musical instruments. Don't take my word for it though.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

View attachment 121621
I once had a surreal moment waiting for a flight.
I looked out of the departures window and one of these was standing on the tarmac, running, fully loaded with suitcases that wound their way to the top and dropped several feet to the concrete. I assume the ground staff had pulled it back from a plane before the loading was done, but maybe the plane taxied off with it's doors open
You couldn't make it up...

 

[baldkev]

Unfortunately i think either oack it incredibly well with a custom setup or cancel the sale. As above, photos are key.... but cancelling is probably the easiest route

 

[Jacob]

Unfortunately i think either oack it incredibly well with a custom setup or cancel the sale. As above, photos are key.... but cancelling is probably the easiest route

I think I'll make a wooden packing case. More than the job's worth but I won't make the same mistake again. It's a difficult shape to pack anyway unless you have a very large cardboard box and a bale of bubble wrap.
Come to think - I should have made a nice box to start with as a permanent accessory and worth asking for another £50 or so.
Could be a money maker - hand made balalaika boxes?
https://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/1023301364/original-balalaika-case-concert-soviet

 

[D_W]

I can't follow exactly if the buyer used the GSP or if they used their own proxy shipper. Ebay is usually not going to decide for you unless you have a good fake reason (I got a refurbished pressure washer earlier this year. It had been "tested and confirmed good". I didn't need the whole pressure washer, but needed the hose and gun. It was the same price as the hose and gun ...

...got it four days later, get it out of the box, and of course, the hose has a pinhole in it and it can't develop pressure.

I returned it.

the seller claimed that I switched a good hose out and put the bad one in. ebay sided with them. I protested (literally had no parts to switch) and ebay gave me the rest of the refund but never made the seller pay for it.

But that's the only time I've ever been scammed by a seller who in reality was probably just taking returns from an amazon pallet and selling them without ever checking them.

Back to what you mention for ebay - as a seller, if I use GSP, ebay will cover it, so will paypal.

If I send an item to a proxy shipper without knowing it and the proxy shipper isn't ebay's - as in the buyer arranged it, protection as a seller ends after the first delivery point (the proxy starting point) and anything after that, I'm stuck reimbursing even if it has nothing to do with me and I didn't identify the address as a proxy address. *even* if the buyer uses a friend and says "this is my friend's address, he'll ship it to me", paypal describes that at the point of transfer, all further issues or claims are on me.

I close sales to international shipping for anything that can't sustain being dropped on its own without packing.

P-B that ebay uses for GSP is terrible, too. After years of shipping tools out of the UK, one day, I ordered a norris 2 and they seized it. I get why (cites). They stated that they weren't sure that it wasn't post-ban rosewood because of lack of paperwork. I suggested this was a bit inconsistent with prior practice and that the company was out of business before the ban. Too bad. seller and buyer have no recourse. P-B pulls the item and then in their words, sells seized items elsewhere at a private auction.

 

[baldkev]

I once bought a 'new' tent. It was maybe 80 to 100 quid. When i went to put it up, i found a rip near the corner pole pocket.
I sent piks to the seller and requested a return. She refused and said i had done it!! Ebay told me to resolve it with the seller ( thanks ) in the end i went through her feedback and sold items.... she was buying pallets of returned goods and each time someone returned an item she fought them! Ebay eventually saw sense

Jacob, i had some great shavings from my spindle the other day ( ran some tanalised through to get a rebate ) and i kept a bag of it for packing.......

 

[DavidConnelly]

Right. Thanks for that. Except when I last exported anything and it got damaged after they'd received at UK end, I couldn't get anything from Ebay.
PS just been looking at your link trying to find out about ineligible items but you get lost in a circle of links and get nowhere. They aren't very helpful!

Due to sinilar problems I no longer sell anything of value on ebay especially musical instruments. I use reverb.com. collection only or state that if buyer wants to arrange their own shipping.

 

[Jacob]

Due to sinilar problems I no longer sell anything of value on ebay especially musical instruments. I use reverb.com. collection only or state that if buyer wants to arrange their own shipping.

Good idea. I'll box this one up but not do it again.