Ebay advice

[gasman]

I wonder if I can solicit some advice from you worldly-wise folks....
I recently sold quite a few planes on ebay - Lie Nielsens etc as I did not use them much. They were all 'as described' with photos and descriptions of how much use, how old etc. The biggest was a Clifton no 4 1/2 which I had only had for a year (and got off a forum member in exchange for another plane). I never really liked it (that bl**dy 2 piece cap iron!) Anyway they all sold - including the Cliffie - and I duly sent them off. 2 weeks after dispatch I get an email from the buyer saying he has only just got the plane as he has been abroad - and there is a crack on the side casing of the plane. He says the packaging was intact... I asked him for photos which he has supplied and sure enough there is a very small crack in the side casing. The thing is I have never dropped it, it has never left my workshop and I am almost certain (definitely certain) I would have noticed a crack on it before. He says he wants a full refund including postage to send it back to me. Unfortunately I cannot find a photo that I had taken showing the side of the plane which is damaged before I sent it.
So what would you do?
Thanks for helping me with a quandry
Mark

 

[Doctor]

I'd give him a refund

 

[mclarenf1racer]

I'd get them to send it back to you and then refund them, once you ensure that it is your plane and not one that has been switched.
what was your returns policy, did you have returns accepted on the listing?
if you didnt and the listing was an as described then open up a dispute with ebay and let them decide on the outcome, chances are they will decide in your favour, but if not then they will require the buyer to return to you and then refund.
nothing to lose on your part.
I hate it when things dont work out on ebay.

 

[RogerP]

Get him to send it back for inspection and "security code check". If he's trying to pull a fast one (I doubt it) that may stop him. Once you get it back you'll just have to refund - including his return postage. If you don't he'll just report it to PayPal (assuming he used PayPal) as "significantly not as described" and, unless you can prove otherwise, they'll refund him plus you'll get a black mark. Buyers almost always win on eBay.

 

[goldeneyedmonkey]

Get him to send it back for inspection and "security code check". If he's trying to pull a fast one (I doubt it) that may stop him. Once you get it back you'll just have to refund - including his return postage. If you don't he'll just report it to PayPal (assuming he used PayPal) as "significantly not as described" and, unless you can prove otherwise, they'll refund him plus you'll get a black mark. Buyers almost always win on eBay.

... I like the "Security Code Check" Roger . I'd also recommend getting him to send it back, it will almost definitely be the courier that has damaged it, you don't have to damage the packaging to crack whatever's inside. I've seen some very carefree couriers about (although most that I've used have been great).

These things happen mate. You might be able to claim some money back from the couriers as most things are insured up to £50 as standard. If you have photos proving the state of it before and after then it might make up for the loss of money earnt from selling a cracked plane and the P&P costs. Of get it professionally repaired (not sure how possible this is, as I don't know much about hand planes).


But good luck with it. Cheers _Dan.

 

[Pvt_Ryan]

Look at the auction if you put the pics up there. The auctions viewable stay for 3 months after bidding ends.

Oh and you get £30 insurance by default if you used royal mail.

 

[tomatwark]

Have a look at the buyers feedback, not the rating as this will be 100% as a buyer since Ebay will not now let sellers give negative feedback.

But look at what other sellers have said about him, then you may get a feel if the guy is being honest, as Dan said it is most likely to be the carrier, this is why I always send expensive stuff recorded and insured.

I sometimes get people complaining about my postage costs but normally once explained there is not a problem as people would rather get their money back if there is a problem, I have only had to cancel one sale due to someone bidding and thinking I would send the plane out by a cheaper method.

Tom

 

[Mcluma]

Did you make pics of the plane before you send it out, just to make sure you weren't at fault.

This is tricky, but in a ebay case its most likely the buyer will win. so get the plane back, and claim on the shipping insurance (if possible)

I had large stuff (when buying) arriving damaged by the courier.

That he only opened the package after two weeks? well that happen to me all the time, i buy stuff in anticipation of a project, so it could well be that i only open a package after 2/3 months.

 

[RogerP]

I sometimes get people complaining about my postage costs but normally once explained there is not a problem as people would rather get their money back if there is a problem

Insurance is for the seller NOT the buyer. In the UK it's the seller's responsibility to get the item to the buyer in good order. If the goods don't arrive or are damaged the seller has to make a refund - regardless of the method of postage. If a buyer claims non-delivery PayPal will refund them from your account unless you can prove delivery with a tracked/signed-for receipt from the carrier or RM. Many canny buyers are aware of this but it seems too many sellers are not.

 

[Blister]

Mark

If you type the ebay auction item number into the search bar you listing will show up

If you have photographic proof that no crack is visible I cant see he has a leg to stand on

The description of the packaging " intact " is very vague , is that intact as in totally undamaged , slight external damage , a big dink in the side etc etc

It is not your fault he was away for 2 weeks , did he ask you to delay posting knowing he would be away ?

Can you find out what day it was delivered / collected as he may not have been away ? and 2 weeks later damaged it and is now looking for a bail out

What courier did you use ? check with them for the sign for date / collection date

If the parcel had NO damage then how could it be damaged in transit ?

If the parcel had impact damage but was still intact he should have signed " Package damaged " or opened it at the couriers

Did he ask for the item to be covered by full insurance to the value of plane and carriage ? or want it sent as cheap as possible ?

Unfortunately there are lots of not so honest people around so do everything you can to prove him wrong

Hope you get it sorted between the two of you

 

[tomatwark]

Roger

I am aware that insurance is for the seller, but I am not going to not charge the buyer for it, if the buyer is not prepared to pay for insurance and to have the parcel tracked, I will not sell to them as I do not want to end up in the situation that Mark is in.

While I like selling on ebay, they have made it more and more towards the buyers and there is no real protection for the seller any more.

Tom

 

[RogerP]

Roger

I am aware that insurance is for the seller, but I am not going to not charge the buyer for it, if the buyer is not prepared to pay for insurance and to have the parcel tracked, I will not sell to them as I do not want to end up in the situation that Mark is in.

While I like selling on ebay, they have made it more and more towards the buyers and there is no real protection for the seller any more.

Tom

Totally agree with you.

 

[Pond]

Unless you can prove it was undamaged, with the photo, when posted you will have to give him a refund!

But you don't have to pay for his return postage, that's his responsibility, but he may give neg feedback if you don't.

Been there done that. If he opens a dispute Ebay will side with the buyer unless you can prove without doubt otherwise, but their rules state he has to pay for the return.

HTH

 

[gasman]

Thanks to all of you for the advice... I thought long and hard about it and, even though I do not think I was in the wrong, I have offered him a refund of his costs so far (but not the postage of the plane back to me) which he is happy with. I have used this plane very little, I did not have it from new, and I suppose it is just possible there was a tiny crack - as it is only 10 mm long in total. I looked at the one photo I have and it is of the other side - typical. I hate conflict like this on ebay and therefore have decided to keep the plane for the moment
I just do not like conflict like this
Thanks again
Mark

 

[Pond]

Mark,

I know how you feel.

I sold a brand new phone on the Bay last year. He said there was a fault with it (there wasn't I think he just didn't realise it was locked to a network, even though I stated it). Buyer opened a dispute before I saw his emails and it was awarded to him because I couldn't prove otherwise until I got it back! I was made to feel like I was trying to defraud him. I kept the phone, it's in a drawer now!

Don't forget you won't get your Ebay or Paypal fees back either!!

 

[Vann]

Just out of intrest, what brand of plane was it? I ask because the ductile iron of Veritas and Lie-Nielsen planes is supposed to be almost unbreakable, and I've seen a video of the Clifton drop tests.

I bought a yankee screwdriver (130A) on Trademe (NZ's E-bay). One of the two bits that came with it was broken - older damage, not in-transit damage. The seller suggested we can the deal, but only agreed to refund purchase price and shipping one way only. I wasn't sure if that was fair or not, but returned it anyway. He relisted it with another bit (two total) and increased price to partially cover his extra shipping cost. The b*gger could have sent me the replacement bit :evil:

Cheers, Vann.

 

[RogerS]

....

Don't forget you won't get your Ebay or Paypal fees back either!!

Are you sure about that? I thought that you definitely got the Final Seller's Fee if you went through the eBay channels to resolve the return

 

[RogerP]

....

Don't forget you won't get your Ebay or Paypal fees back either!!

Are you sure about that? I thought that you definitely got the Final Seller's Fee if you went through the eBay channels to resolve the return

... and you will get the PayPal fee back when you issue the refund via PayPal's process.

 

[tomatwark]

Just out of intrest, what brand of plane was it? I ask because the ductile iron of Veritas and Lie-Nielsen planes is supposed to be almost unbreakable, and I've seen a video of the Clifton drop tests.

That is a very good point, I am sure reading on here that Matthew from Workshop Heaven has seen this done at the factory.

Tom

 

[gasman]

It was a Clifton 4 1/2 - I will look at it when I get it back