Dust Extraction

[NickDReed]

I'm looking for advise on dust extraction.

I'm moving home soon and will get a larger work space (She gets to decide what goes on in the house, I get the important space). I've never had a dust extraction "set up" as such and I'm toying with ideas on how to address this in my new space.

I have an idea of a mobile "cart" which would run 2 1100w dust extractors (which I already own) through a cyclone separator. The theory being this will cut down long runs of ducting and blast gates which will be cheaper and improve the extraction on each machine (?). I'm OK sacrificing the efficiency of not having to reconnect to each tool I use to improve the extraction capability. Id have short runs of smooth ducting to each machine with a flexi tube with quick release clip on the extractor cart itself. In my head if I can get the set up low enough i'd be able to utilise the top of the cart as work top albeit probably chest height (might end up being useful for something).

Anyone got any thoughts/ better ideas? Am I completely wrong in my theory of airflow/extraction?

Regards

Nick

 

[Inspector]

Dust Collection Research - Home A long read but the information is what matters.

Two extractors set up in series or in parallel will usually fight one another for the air. Not good for them.

Pete

 

[artie]

If you are anything like me you will soon tire of connecting to each machine in turn.

 

[sploo]

As Inspector has noted; two extractors running together is probably not a good idea. A cyclone (despite the fact it will rob you of some power) is a good idea; though I'd strongly advise either then venting the exhaust outside, or ensure you have a suitable (e.g. HEPA) filter; otherwise you're just producing a machine that will be spraying large quantities of the smallest dust particles (which are the ones that are the most dangerous for your lungs).

Short runs of ducting will certainly help offset a smaller extractor; but you do need to create enough volume of air flow (and linear speed) to capture and move the dust.

Knocking on for 20 years ago I built this setup (Dust Extraction). I can't effectively use it in my current place, but still have most of the DIY ducting parts and blast gates; which you'd be welcome to have if you want.

 

[Vinn]

If at all possible, vent outside. My workshop is in a field and I just vent straight outside, no filter - all the shavings are still collected in the bag as usual, inside the shop. It is the best thing I have ever done in my workshop. If you don't have a field, then make sure the filter is outside (or even the whole extractor). As Sploo mentioned, an extractor venting into the workshop is effectively a dust pump for the smaller particles.

 

[robgul]

I have a home-brewed dust extraction system for my single-garage workshop - using 40mm waste pipe, a cyclone on a collecting box - powered by a Henry.

However I also have Record AC400 dust filter attached to the ceiling to clean the atmosphere - switch it on when you start work, leave it on for a couple of hours when you've finished. From the look of the cleanable/replaceable filter it really works - especially for MDF which is especially fine and escapes from the track saw!

 

[Inspector]

Nick if you are going to rely on a room filter to make up for an undersized collection system please wear a good dust mask while you are in the shop otherwise you lungs are filtering the air too. Fine dust can hang in the air for many hours and you can't see it. It may not bother you at first but eventually it will contribute to breathing problems when life catches up to you.

Pete

 

[sunnybob]

What Pete said.
Rob, youre doing yourself no favours with that ceiling mounted filter. Its pulling all the dust that wants to settle, straight up past your face. I'm pretty sure youre not using a mask?
I saw my friend using his lathe with a similar set up, The column of dust he was breathing in was spectacular, and he could not see a speck of it. 6 years on and he has breathing difficulties.
Get a bigger, better extractor system, and run the ceiling thing for a few hours as you leave the building.

 

[NickDReed]

@Inspector hi Pete,
Thanks, I've been reading up. It seems I need to come up with a way of housing my dust extractors outside and bringing a hose through the wall is my best bet. Or ditching the 2 extractors I have in favour of a bigger until I can vent outside. It's something I need to look at carefully once I've got the house to see the practicalities of how without potentially pissing off the neighbours.

 

[sunnybob]

Venting outside only works if you have no neighbours. They wont be happy with dust flying all over their gardens and washing. It also needs careful placement to ensure it doesnt blow back inside your own doors or windows.

 

[NickDReed]

@sploo thanks for the offer may yet take you up on it, looks great.

 

[NickDReed]

Has anyone had any great success building their own cyclone? I've seen a couple of attempts on YouTube where they seem to try and redirect the air inside a barrel etc rather than buying one of the brands you can get here in the UK. Does anyone have experience of trying this, and if so what level of success did you get?

 

[robgul]

Depending on the anticipated volume - mine is low - the plastic cyclones for about £20 work OK. I made a comment up-thread.

The pic shows the cyclone, collecting box, Henry, the pipework and home-made blast-gates. The hose is just 38mm pond hose - the orange connectors were 3d printed by my brother.

I did try the cyclone on a plastic barrel but the suction was too great and it collapsed in on itself - hence making the box from some left-over OSB - the joints are all sealed with silicone inside the box and the lid has some insulation strip around the edge - and over-centre toggles to keep it closed. The Henry is on a socket with a remote control.

The other OSB box is a hood around my mitre saw - with a hose of the dust outlet joined with a Y-piece (3d again) to a bit of hose that's cable-tied immediately in front of the blade.

Table saw and small planer/thicknesser are on trucks under the bench and each has a hose that just plugs into a blast-gate.



.... it's all a bit basic but it works for low volume! - I may make a bigger collection box (or put an acrylic sight-window in the existing one)

 

[Coyote]

What you need is one of these.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/203100188201
I'm sure it's worth the money....

 

[sploo]

@sploo thanks for the offer may yet take you up on it, looks great.

No worries. It's not going anywhere so you'd be welcome to it. I've probably got a few lengths of 4" spiral flex hose you could have too.

Has anyone had any great success building their own cyclone? I've seen a couple of attempts on YouTube where they seem to try and redirect the air inside a barrel etc rather than buying one of the brands you can get here in the UK. Does anyone have experience of trying this, and if so what level of success did you get?

Yes/no/sorta. You can hack something together (cyclone or barrel type) and get some reasonable degree of separation, but it does require a bit of design/experimentation to get something that works well.

The Thien Separator (J. Phil Thien's Cyclone Separator Lid w/ the Thien Cyclone Separator Baffle) is quite a good (simple) idea; but lacking any actual plans/dimensions lots of people build their own (of various sizes/scales) so I'm sure some work much better than others.

Bill Pentz's site (Dust Collection Research - Home) is very verbose, but if you're willing to spend the time ploughing through the details you can find some good info on what will probably work re a cyclone design. These are all for HVLP extractors rather than shop vacs.

For a shop vac, the Oneida Ultimate Dust Deputy (Ultimate Dust Deputy Systainer Cyclone Separator Kit) is superb; but it's not cheap. That said, I've probably saved a fortune in Festool vac bags (and reduced filter replacement frequency) over the years as a result of using it.

 

[NickDReed]

What you need is one of these.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/203100188201
I'm sure it's worth the money....

It will definitely be just as polished and shiny once I've got it connected up and run it for 15 minutes!

 

[DBT85]

Has anyone had any great success building their own cyclone? I've seen a couple of attempts on YouTube where they seem to try and redirect the air inside a barrel etc rather than buying one of the brands you can get here in the UK. Does anyone have experience of trying this, and if so what level of success did you get?

The small ones are cheap enough and work well enough I think that to attempt to make one yourself is going to be an exercise in frustration when compared to the cost of just buying one.

A 100mm one on the other hand and it might be more beneficial.

What we all need is to get lucky like sunnybob

 

[NickDReed]

Depending on the anticipated volume - mine is low - the plastic cyclones for about £20 work OK. I made a comment up-thread.

The pic shows the cyclone, collecting box, Henry, the pipework and home-made blast-gates. The hose is just 38mm pond hose - the orange connectors were 3d printed by my brother.

I did try the cyclone on a plastic barrel but the suction was too great and it collapsed in on itself - hence making the box from some left-over OSB - the joints are all sealed with silicone inside the box and the lid has some insulation strip around the edge - and over-centre toggles to keep it closed. The Henry is on a socket with a remote control.

The other OSB box is a hood around my mitre saw - with a hose of the dust outlet joined with a Y-piece (3d again) to a bit of hose that's cable-tied immediately in front of the blade.

Table saw and small planer/thicknesser are on trucks under the bench and each has a hose that just plugs into a blast-gate.

View attachment 91955 View attachment 91956

.... it's all a bit basic but it works for low volume! - I may make a bigger collection box (or put an acrylic sight-window in the existing one)

Do you find you lose airflow due to the bends and the lengths of your flexi hose? I'm going to try and keep as much of my run as solid pipe as possible. The standard 100mm flexi hose that came with one of the vacs seems to really hamper the airflow.

 

[bigbigblue]

I knocked up a Thien Separator using an old rubber council dustbin as the receptacle for the chips. It works a treat and I threw it together based on the three pictures on Mr Thien's website, I was originally going to buy an Axminster AC118CI cyclone interceptor, but it was too big and building the Thien saved me about £150.

 

[Inspector]

As a general rule flexi has three times as much drag as solid ducting so try to avoid it as much as possible.

Pete