Dust extraction choices

[Alan Bain]

The moment has finally come when I realise I need to sort out dust extraction in my workshop (serious, but non-professional use only) before the hamsters move in! Can anyone give me any suggestions on what I should be looking for; I'll probably look to buy something second hand - but it's not clear to me if what I need is a big shop vac (e.g CamVac/Record Power) or something more like a dust extractor (Axminster style). I don't have the space or need for one of the really large 3ph multibag units, nor do I really want all the noise they make! I don't want to have to move hoses around all the time, so I'll want to eventually sort pipes and gates.

Workshop has the usual machines to make dust (which happen to be three phase)

Table saw (Wadkin PK)
Planer (Wadkin BAOS)
Bandsaw (Startrite 352)
Disc Sander / Bobbin sander

Alan

 

[Jacob]

The big one is the planer. You need something like this at the very minimum, a high volume low pressure machine with a 4 or 5" flexi pipe Axminster Craft AC153E Dust Extractor
It'd do the TS too - just need to reconnect the pipe.
Less critical with the bandsaw as the dust all goes down, unless you do a lot of mdf. You'd have to build in a duct for the pipe.
Sander probably a HPLV vac such as the trend t30.
T30 wouldconnect to the top of your saw crown guard if you have one with an outlet i.e. both machines and saw ducts connected, not either/or.
I wouldn't bother trying to plumb things in as you still end up with trailing pipes, and other problems. Instead just reconnect the one pipe as necessary.
So that's two machines; one HVLP and one HPLV, working separately and independently.
PS it's quite common to see a workshop with dust extraction plumbed in carefully, but needing even more lengths of trailing flexi pipe to make the connections, than an unplumbed system with just one loose pipe

 

[starlingwood]

The moment has finally come when I realise I need to sort out dust extraction in my workshop (serious, but non-professional use only) before the hamsters move in! Can anyone give me any suggestions on what I should be looking for; I'll probably look to buy something second hand - but it's not clear to me if what I need is a big shop vac (e.g CamVac/Record Power) or something more like a dust extractor (Axminster style). I don't have the space or need for one of the really large 3ph multibag units, nor do I really want all the noise they make! I don't want to have to move hoses around all the time, so I'll want to eventually sort pipes and gates.

Workshop has the usual machines to make dust (which happen to be three phase)

Table saw (Wadkin PK)
Planer (Wadkin BAOS)
Bandsaw (Startrite 352)
Disc Sander / Bobbin sander

Alan

I'm going to be selling my AC153E probably by end of next week if you're interested. I bought it as a temp extractor as the one i want was on backorder but finally arrives this week. Its only weeks old and I've probably had 3 bags worth sucked through it. It's too large and powerful for my requirements but is fine. I Will sell for £250 plus postage and its a 50kg box

 

[danst96]

The big one is the planer. You need something like this at the very minimum, a high volume low pressure machine with a 4 or 5" flexi pipe Axminster Craft AC153E Dust Extractor
It'd do the TS too - just need to reconnect the pipe.
Less critical with the bandsaw as the dust all goes down, unless you do a lot of mdf. You'd have to build in a duct for the pipe.
Sander probably a HPLV vac such as the trend t30.
T30 wouldconnect to the top of your saw crown guard if you have one with an outlet i.e. both machines and saw ducts connected, not either/or.
I wouldn't bother trying to plumb things in as you still end up with trailing pipes, and other problems. Instead just reconnect the one pipe as necessary.
So that's two machines; one HVLP and one HPLV, working separately and independently.
PS it's quite common to see a workshop with dust extraction plumbed in carefully, but needing even more lengths of trailing flexi pipe to make the connections, than an unplumbed system with just one loose pipe

About the plumbed in Vs moving the extractor around I think depends on workshop size and space. A smaller workshop can benefit from a plumbed in system where limited space can make moving an extractor around difficult. This isn't an issue if your shop is very small or a bit larger where it wouldn't get in the way.

 

[MARK.B.]

One of the few things that still work well is my hearing and that was a consideration when finances allowed me to upgrade my DE , I had the space to build a housing for my new machine on the end of my shop and run the pipework and electrics inside. It as well insulated to keep it snug and the noise down to a minimum. OK you have to go outside to change the bags and on a windy day that can be interesting twin bags so less frequent changes it was minimal cost as i already had the timber and left over insulation so only hardware and a lock needed .

 

[Chippymint]

Given what you have said and that you are using some great dust producing machines, you are at a perfect time to install a system that will work for your workshop and how you work wood.

I was in a similar position to you many years ago. A friend had a professional company install a dust extraction system into his Joinerery shop. I had the opportunity to get to know the installers and quiz them and see a professional installation. I learnt a lot and they gave me some great advise; ''don't react to buying anything until you understand about workshop dust control and how to deal with it. Do your research well''.

Contrary to my intial thoughts, it is not a simple topic and there is much to learn before you spend your hard earned cash. When you know what to do, you will be far better equipped to go to the market place and buy what is correct for your application. In the long run its a win, win situation as you only buy what you need but above all; your new system will be effective at controlling dust.

My advise is to do as much research as you can. A good way to start is to buy one of the books which covers the subject of dust control in a workshop environment. They are not expensive. They have a wealth of sound information that will steer you through to getting a great system. One such book is Woodshop Dust Control by Sandor Nagyszalanczy - it was written a few years ago so it may not have the very latest gizmo references but what it does give you is a complete understanding of what you need to consider and do. I bought it and it opened my eyes as to what is important and how to get it right without spending a fortune.

Good luck

 

[Sideways]

With that set of machines, you will ultimately end up with both a shop vac style machine for strong suction through small hoses and some sort of bag (or large pleated canister) machine to pull a good draught down 5-6" pipes.
I'm with Mark, above, and place a premium on trying to get the quietest possible shop vac solution.
I've also used a small / cheap bag extractors and found them feeble. I suggest you buy bigger than you think you need. 1.5 to 2.2kW if you possibly can and at least a 5" (6" better) hose or duct from end to end.

 

[Alan Bain]

Quiet is definitely important and appreciate the pointers to the book. As you say what started as “I need a giant vacuum cleaner” quickly became rather more sophisticated and yes my machines are super at what they do but also at making dust!!

 

[Jacob]

With that set of machines, you will ultimately end up with both a shop vac style machine for strong suction through small hoses and some sort of bag (or large pleated canister) machine to pull a good draught down 5-6" pipes.
I'm with Mark, above, and place a premium on trying to get the quietest possible shop vac solution.
I've also used a small / cheap bag extractors and found them feeble. I suggest you buy bigger than you think you need. 1.5 to 2.2kW if you possibly can and at least a 5" (6" better) hose or duct from end to end.

My 1.5kw ADE2200 is just big enough for a 12" planer - it can block with say 9" wide shavings from a hardwood board, but good for most things. Bigger would be better, also because even a cloth bag machine will extract finer dust than its rating, as the fabric gets clogged up.
So it's clearing the air as well.
I often do a quick blast around the shop with a blower (hose and nozzle to back of an old vac) which gets into all the nooks and crannies and fills the room with dust - then leave the room with the extractor on, until the air clears.

 

[Alan Bain]

My advise is to do as much research as you can. A good way to start is to buy one of the books which covers the subject of dust control in a workshop environment. They are not expensive. They have a wealth of sound information that will steer you through to getting a great system. One such book is Woodshop Dust Control by Sandor Nagyszalanczy - it was written a few years ago so it may not have the very latest gizmo references but what it does give you is a complete understanding of what you need to consider and do.

Copy ordered - looks really useful. I am indeed very ignorant of this whole subject having previously thought it was for "industrial" workshops only!

 

[Sachakins]

Copy ordered - looks really useful. I am indeed very ignorant of this whole subject having previously thought it was for "industrial" workshops only!

I would also look at this site
http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/

 

[Bm101]

Alan, it helps to understand there is basically two types of dust extraction. Large waste through low power suction, the big extractors, big tubes, you see with the cotton hoods.
This is High Volume Low Power HVLP. Planers etc will come under this category.

All powered hand tools and some machines like bandsaws that produce lots of fine dust need High Power Low Volume extraction. These are shop vac types with a small hose. This is where you need to start worrying about particle size. This is the dangerous dust. Smaller it is the more damaging it is as far as I understand it.
Siggy-7 explains it far better than I could.
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads/a-guide-to-dust-extraction.101204/
After using a good but noisy liddlaldi vac with no power takeoff for a long time I decided to build a soundbox for it and bought a chinese cyclone. Then, another member from Ukw sold me his recordpower vac and his big extractor. He also gifted me with his cyclone as he was moving house.
Here's some pictures from that build and I have to say I am really happy with it. It's a quiet machine compared to the liddlealdi vac. But the sound box (not sound proofing before the converts come calling!) has dropped the noise from 'an issue' to 'conversational background level'. Far more important the 5m hose now comfortably reaches all corners of my shed. I've converted all my extraction pipes to 2" white plumbing pipe so now I just move the hose round the shed. I built in a little ledge so I can also lift the lid up and wedge it open to allow the machine to cool but for short periods of use it's fine and vents down the back.
I bought some remote control plugs. Holy shizzle.
I have a couple of smaller extraction fans in the 'eaves' but they don't go on too much. Removing most dust at cut is vital.

It's honestly life changing. I feel like Tony Stark at my bench now with my remote. The floor is clean. It's mad. If i need extraction I just shift the pipe, turn on the bandsaw etc and press the zapper for vac power. All the waste rattles round in the cyclone till I turn it off then it all drops into the bucket. I never need to empty the actual vac or buy bags. Love It.

Pics dragged and dropped in no particular build order.
Ohhhh. PS. The insulation is Rockwool covered with garden fleece and a LOT of staples.
Go for it. My Shed has never been nicer to work in and health wise you can't knock it.

 

[Chippymint]

Copy ordered - looks really useful. I am indeed very ignorant of this whole subject having previously thought it was for "industrial" workshops only!

Alan. Its definitely a great read and it will certainly help you make good decisions for what you need to achieve. There are some techy bits but nothing that needs a professional to interpret for you. If you need any help you can always contact me direct through this forum.

 

[MARK.B.]

Bm 101 Do you have any problems with your vac overheating/restricted airflow, when it is boxed in like that ?

 

[Bm101]

Bm 101 Do you have any problems with your vac overheating/restricted airflow, when it is boxed in like that ?

That's a good question Mark that I forgot to address. I got in touch with Record about whether putting a reducer to narrow the hose would strain the motor. The customer service guy hedged his bets a bit but reckoned on halving the on time to 30 mins with 15 to cool. Now that's without the heating issue of being boxed in.
The vac is not entirely enclosed the 1st pic shows a vent hole on the back of the box but it's not going to let a lot of hot air out there.
For me personally, run time of the motor is short. Generally minutes. If you look at the last pic the lid over hangs the side. I should have made it overhang the end. with hindsight. There's a bit of wood fixed inside the lid that allows me to pivot the lid so it sits on a simple stay. If I have the vac on for a prolonged period for sanding say, I'd just lift the lid. It's still quieter in the box with the lid up than outside. Just the balance I found acceptable.
Also the record vents from under the lid not out a direct vent. If I used the machine for longer periods I'd definitely add some pc fan intakes as it does warm up in there the noise trade off with prolonged motor life would be worth it so you make a good point especially if the vac was being used for any sort of prolonged period.
Edit: Suction is not reduced btw.