Brilliant thread. Thanks Phil.
What came first? I love stuff like this. Bit like 'oranges or the word orange?' And what did we call orange stuff before we imported oranges if it's true that oranges and not the word orange came first. I mean. What word did people use to describe the colour of marmalade say, before we imported oranges and no one knew the word orange.
Genuine mystery. Like the the Mary Celeste. Or the Mary Queen of Scots. Or even more mysteriously the Mary Rose. Or choosing to get married at all with hindsight.