Drawshave maker's mark
- Thread starter Steve Maskery
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Sheffield Tony
Ghost of the disenchanted
Any other marks or distinguishing features? Any chance of a picture of the whole tool ? Might help guess from the style if it may be British, French, American...
Steve Maskery
Established Member
Steve Maskery
Established Member
I'm not sure about anything!
Sheffield Tony
Ghost of the disenchanted
Well thanks for the extra picture, but I'm none the wiser. I had the passing thought that, if it had looked to be French, it could have been I.... Freres, but it doesn't.
It could be that the mark are the blacksmiths initials, things like drawknives and billhooks could be made by any village forge I guess. I presume it is the mark of the maker, not the user as it looks like it would be done hot, so before heat treatment.
The only drawback of taking the handles off is that the tangs get shorter each time - they need to be riveted right through the handles so they don't just pull off. Looks quite re-useable though, not greatly worn.
It could be that the mark are the blacksmiths initials, things like drawknives and billhooks could be made by any village forge I guess. I presume it is the mark of the maker, not the user as it looks like it would be done hot, so before heat treatment.
The only drawback of taking the handles off is that the tangs get shorter each time - they need to be riveted right through the handles so they don't just pull off. Looks quite re-useable though, not greatly worn.
Steve Maskery
Established Member
Thanks, Tony. Yes, the ends of the tangs did break off, but, as I say, I don't like having woodworm in my workshop. Been there, done that, got the bench.
There's not much to go on, is there? You know that bit on the Antiques Roadshow where they ask about how the piece was acquired - if you do know anything else about where this came from, there might be some clues as to age and country of origin.
If it is very old, you might be able to see a boundary between the body of the tool and an inserted and welded strip of harder, crucible steel. (There was a long discussion on this in the context of plane irons here, laminated-irons-again-t108019.html but i believe the principle applies to other edge tools such as your drawknife. ) If it's hard steel throughout, it's more likely to be 20th century.
The problem with identifying the maker is that edge tools like this, along with agricultural tools such as billhooks and axes, weren't all made in Sheffield - not so many generations ago, every village had a blacksmith who could make you one. I don't know of a comprehensive historical study of all the local smiths' marks, though there may be one. Geoffrey Tweedale has researched 900 Sheffield makers but that's a book I don't have and am not about to buy.
Your man probably had a first name that began with J - such as James or John - which are far commoner than names such as Ian beginning with an I. Capital I was used for J well into the nineteenth century and later still if it was part of a long established trademark such as "I SORBY."
I've looked in a few places for IF or IE but not found anything. The places I have looked include:
- A 1787 directory of Sheffield, which includes a lot of similar initial marks.
- Bob Burgess's list of makers at http://billhooks.co.uk/edge-tool-making ... ew/a-to-g/
- The 1919 Sheffield directory of trade marks.
- Eileen Woodhead's booklet "Trademarks on Base-Metal Tableware" (which has a big overlap into edge tool makers).
The handles might have provided a clue as to the age and source - can you say if they were whittled or turned? If they were turned and entirely identical, they were probably relatively late and were made on an automatic copy lathe.
I think there is a slight preference for pear shaped handles on French drawknives, but that might be a function of the specific trade use as well as country of origin.
All that said, you've still got a useful tool and it won't be hard to put it back into working order.
If it is very old, you might be able to see a boundary between the body of the tool and an inserted and welded strip of harder, crucible steel. (There was a long discussion on this in the context of plane irons here, laminated-irons-again-t108019.html but i believe the principle applies to other edge tools such as your drawknife. ) If it's hard steel throughout, it's more likely to be 20th century.
The problem with identifying the maker is that edge tools like this, along with agricultural tools such as billhooks and axes, weren't all made in Sheffield - not so many generations ago, every village had a blacksmith who could make you one. I don't know of a comprehensive historical study of all the local smiths' marks, though there may be one. Geoffrey Tweedale has researched 900 Sheffield makers but that's a book I don't have and am not about to buy.
Your man probably had a first name that began with J - such as James or John - which are far commoner than names such as Ian beginning with an I. Capital I was used for J well into the nineteenth century and later still if it was part of a long established trademark such as "I SORBY."
I've looked in a few places for IF or IE but not found anything. The places I have looked include:
- A 1787 directory of Sheffield, which includes a lot of similar initial marks.
- Bob Burgess's list of makers at http://billhooks.co.uk/edge-tool-making ... ew/a-to-g/
- The 1919 Sheffield directory of trade marks.
- Eileen Woodhead's booklet "Trademarks on Base-Metal Tableware" (which has a big overlap into edge tool makers).
The handles might have provided a clue as to the age and source - can you say if they were whittled or turned? If they were turned and entirely identical, they were probably relatively late and were made on an automatic copy lathe.
I think there is a slight preference for pear shaped handles on French drawknives, but that might be a function of the specific trade use as well as country of origin.
All that said, you've still got a useful tool and it won't be hard to put it back into working order.
Steve Maskery
Established Member
Thank you very much for that, Andy, much appreciated. I didn't know about the I/J business.
As to its provenance, I have no idea. I'm pretty sure it wasn't my dad's, and I never bought it, so I think it is most likely a gift from someone on here after my tools were stolen. If that is the case, I'm ashamed to say I don't remember who gave what, several people were very generous at that time.
Drawshaves are not something I use and I have another anyway, so I was thinking of offering it as a FTAGH resto project (unless it turned out to be a da Vinci, in which case stuff that, I'm off
)
As to its provenance, I have no idea. I'm pretty sure it wasn't my dad's, and I never bought it, so I think it is most likely a gift from someone on here after my tools were stolen. If that is the case, I'm ashamed to say I don't remember who gave what, several people were very generous at that time.
Drawshaves are not something I use and I have another anyway, so I was thinking of offering it as a FTAGH resto project (unless it turned out to be a da Vinci, in which case stuff that, I'm off
)
Sheffield Tony
Ghost of the disenchanted
Looking around at the possibiltiy of "JF" I found John Finch, of Finch's foundry, 1873-1882.
https://www.360cities.net/image/finch-f ... on-england
There's a drawknife on the wall ... Bit fanciful maybe.
The French pattern drawknives I've seen are quite distinctive; bevel on both sides as well as short handles, cranked upwards. American ones often have a stepped blade, presumably from lamination - like so:
So my guess is British.
https://www.360cities.net/image/finch-f ... on-england
There's a drawknife on the wall ... Bit fanciful maybe.
The French pattern drawknives I've seen are quite distinctive; bevel on both sides as well as short handles, cranked upwards. American ones often have a stepped blade, presumably from lamination - like so:
So my guess is British.
Attachments
Steve Maskery
Established Member
OK, now that I see that, the handles were that sort of skittle shape. I don't think it had those buttons on the end, though, or else I would have saved them.
TVM.
TVM.
Cheshirechappie
Established Member
I've no answer, but maybe a couple of thoughts might add to the thread.
Firstly, the mark is unlike the general run of Sheffield trademarks, which mostly have a full name rather than initials (eg 'I Sorby' which is a fairly common mark originally registered by John Sorby some time around 1800, but used long after John's passing, indeed well into the 20th century). Not conclusive, but it suggests a non-Sheffield made tool.
Second, the serifs on the I and F suggest earlier rather than later manufacture - perhaps 19th rather than 20th century. If of earlier manufacture, the chances of it being laminated rather than one-piece are much higher, so it might be worth a careful look, or even a tentative stroke or two with a file to see what's hard and what's soft.
Must admit, I rather like Sheffield Tony's suggestion of Finch's Foundry ..... even if it is just speculation!
Firstly, the mark is unlike the general run of Sheffield trademarks, which mostly have a full name rather than initials (eg 'I Sorby' which is a fairly common mark originally registered by John Sorby some time around 1800, but used long after John's passing, indeed well into the 20th century). Not conclusive, but it suggests a non-Sheffield made tool.
Second, the serifs on the I and F suggest earlier rather than later manufacture - perhaps 19th rather than 20th century. If of earlier manufacture, the chances of it being laminated rather than one-piece are much higher, so it might be worth a careful look, or even a tentative stroke or two with a file to see what's hard and what's soft.
Must admit, I rather like Sheffield Tony's suggestion of Finch's Foundry ..... even if it is just speculation!
I also like the idea of John Finch as a possible maker. It's an idea which would be easy to check - you could contact the people at the foundry and see if it is his mark. If it is, and if you really don't want the drawknife to use, I'm sure they would accept it as a donation for display.
