Door Locks

[head clansman]

hi dibs-h

Security for my workshop is always a constant worry to me. I started to day to improve my security , order one of those new hasp and staple type locks you see on vans nowadays the ones that cant be bolt cropped off .

My workshop door also opens out I'm going to cover door and frame protect hinges at same time with metal sheeting which i'm trying to sourcing today , once metal sheeting has arrived but before fitting the metal sheeting I have an old five point locking door lock from a double glazed front door that i will fit into edge of door and frame as well, might even get a second van lock , all windows will have vertical and horizontal interior flat metal bars fitted as well interwoven with each others.

My rear fence panels need replacing soon so they will be replaced with vertical shiplap fence probable about a foot higher 7ft and then lightly fitted trellis panel on top so if someone ties to climb over the trellis will collapse thus making noise .

I already have external garden lighting that i can switch on or off my self but i think this will need upgrading to come on low level light at dusk till dawn throwing light in the right places as a deterrent , and lastly an internal alarm which cannot be seen till it's to late .

hopefully enough to put off the local scrotes and maybe a real pro , luckily the workshop door can be seen from the house so i hope a well worded sign on the door will be enough to put him/her off as well .
hc

 

[head clansman]

hi

ah yea forgot to mention also outside at the highest point on the cable ends at each end of the workshop two dummy alarm boxes so even if they try to nobble those which they will have to supply there own ladder if they do get inside the real alarm will still go off .

I remember a police officer telling me once when we had an attemped break in at one of my other homes in the past that the scrotes then had done over an entire street down one side in another area of the town the night before they went down a row of houses doing every other house as they went till they reach the next house who had an alarm fitted which could be clearly seen and they bypassed that house , not knowing it was a dummy so don't dismiss it's well worth considereing :wink: . hc

 

[Dibs-h]

hi dibs-h

Security for my workshop is always a constant worry to me. I started to day to improve my security , order one of those new hasp and staple type locks you see on vans nowadays the ones that cant be bolt cropped off .

My workshop door also opens out I'm going to cover door and frame protect hinges at same time with metal sheeting which i'm trying to sourcing today , once metal sheeting has arrived but before fitting the metal sheeting I have an old five point locking door lock from a double glazed front door that i will fit into edge of door and frame as well, might even get a second van lock , all windows will have vertical and horizontal interior flat metal bars fitted as well interwoven with each others.

My rear fence panels need replacing soon so they will be replaced with vertical shiplap fence probable about a foot higher 7ft and then lightly fitted trellis panel on top so if someone ties to climb over the trellis will collapse thus making noise .

I already have external garden lighting that i can switch on or off my self but i think this will need upgrading to come on low level light at dusk till dawn throwing light in the right places as a deterrent , and lastly an internal alarm which cannot be seen till it's to late .

hopefully enough to put off the local scrotes and maybe a real pro , luckily the workshop door can be seen from the house so i hope a well worded sign on the door will be enough
to put him/her off as well .

hc

I remember early on when wondering about the door, etc. Someone - Benchwayze IIRC - pointed out that the majority of shed break-ins he'd seen\gone to afterwards\or something - the vast majority involved outward opening doors. The design of door that I've made, being a cariage door usually opens outward - but I went with inward.

The dawn to dusk lighting is better than 500w or 30 secs and then off again and teh neighbours thinking it's the cat again.

I have seen it at someone house's which I thought was interesting (never seen it before) - there were a few external PIR's that if triggered, set of a very muted doorbell tone inside. I've seen similar systems driving CCTV domes, i.e. the turn, zoom, etc. are all pre-programmed depending on with PIR triggered and obviously there must be some sort of pecking order. But I digress.

The hasp thingy - I'd be using coach bolts thru to the inside and coming out thru a plate of steel and then some nuts. No matter how long the screws are, etc. they will rip out with enough leverage - usually not much. Coach bolts on the other hand - the timber would have to go 1st.

I know of steel door sets for around £180+vat, including the frame. That might be a better bet than faffing about trying to plate a door? Let me know - I'll dig out some details. No good to me - as I'm in a conservation area.

 

[big soft moose]

As for them being insured, you try and find a company that will insure that lot as a hobby. You can get trade insurance which costs mega bucks, but not on a normal household policy. I have even tried getting a individual policy, but its a non stater. If you can find one I would be very very grateful, but I doubt you will.

my shop at home is integeral to the house and is thus covered by the house insurance policy ( i have had them confirm this in writing) - but then i only have a few ks worth of kit anyway

the 'shops at work are covered to a total of £26k spread over two different locations ( thats not just woodwork kit, it also includes contractor level mowers, brushcutters, chainsaws etc)- thats via zurich municipal and costs just under a k per year - whether that is considered exorbitant i couldnt say but its a cost of doing business as if we lost the kit and werent insured we'd be screwed

 

[big soft moose]

I remember early on when wondering about the door, etc. Someone - Benchwayze IIRC - pointed out that the majority of shed break-ins he'd seen\gone to afterwards\or something - the vast majority involved outward opening doors. The design of door that I've made, being a cariage door usually opens outward - but I went with inward.

.

its a debateable point - if it opens outwards it is easier to get a crowbar in and try to leaver it open - and you are then banking on the stength of your locks to stop this

however if it opens inwards its considerably easier to boot in, or to open with an enforcer/universal key - which is why most crack dens, dealers pads, and such have doors that open out. When raiding these the police normally have to resort to shooting the hinges off with hatton rounds

 

[Mike.C]

As for them being insured, you try and find a company that will insure that lot as a hobby. You can get trade insurance which costs mega bucks, but not on a normal household policy. I have even tried getting a individual policy, but its a non stater. If you can find one I would be very very grateful, but I doubt you will.

my shop at home is integeral to the house and is thus covered by the house insurance policy ( i have had them confirm this in writing) - but then i only have a few ks worth of kit anyway

the 'shops at work are covered to a total of £26k spread over two different locations ( thats not just woodwork kit, it also includes contractor level mowers, brushcutters, chainsaws etc)- thats via zurich municipal and costs just under a k per year - whether that is considered exorbitant i couldnt say but its a cost of doing business as if we lost the kit and werent insured we'd be screwed

Yes your right there, if your workshop is connected to your house 99% of insures will cover it as part of your household policy.

The thing that pi$$es me off is my workshop used to be a house. :shock: Yes seriously it still has the fire places both upstairs and down (it got bombed in the war and at sometime in the past someone who owned our house rebuilt the front of it and turned it into a workshop, and we have a garage attached. I wonder if the insurers would still class it as a house if I was robbed?

Cheers

Mike

 

[Dibs-h]

my shop at home is integeral to the house and is thus covered by the house insurance policy ( i have had them confirm this in writing) - but then i only have a few ks worth of kit anyway

You are rather fortunate - as even my garage isn't integral, let alone the workshop, all the ins co's that I've been with over teh yrs, all cover to a max of £1.5K (and that;s lucky as most will only do £1k).

My Festool gear is more than the max payout. - that's why it's got a matresss on it and looks like a bed! :wink: only kidding.

the 'shops at work are covered to a total of £26k spread over two different locations ( thats not just woodwork kit, it also includes contractor level mowers, brushcutters, chainsaws etc)- thats via zurich municipal and costs just under a k per year - whether that is considered exorbitant i couldnt say but its a cost of doing business as if we lost the kit and werent insured we'd be screwed

Business cover is a bit different as it's an allowable expense and is part and parcel of being a business - bit different IMO for a householder.

its a debateable point - if it opens outwards it is easier to get a crowbar in and try to leaver it open - and you are then banking on the stength of your locks to stop this

however if it opens inwards its considerably easier to boot in, or to open with an enforcer/universal key - which is why most crack dens, dealers pads, and such have doors that open out. When raiding these the police normally have to resort to shooting the hinges off with hatton rounds

Never thought about it - crack dens that is. Do find my self looking at roofs evey now and then, having done the one on the house and need to be doing the one on the workshop\garage, but never crack den doors! :lol:

 

[big soft moose]

Business cover is a bit different as it's an allowable expense and is part and parcel of being a business - bit different IMO for a householder.

true , although we are a grant funded not for profit organisation so the allowable expense bit doesnt really give us anything

Never thought about it - crack dens that is. Do find my self looking at roofs evey now and then, having done the one on the house and need to be doing the one on the workshop\garage, but never crack den doors! :lol:

I ought to point out that i dont make a habit of hanging arround crack dens either - but a bloke i went to college with works on the specialist entry team for the Met and he tells me that every time they hit an organised criminal, or a crack house, or anyone else who is heavy and fears both police and competitors trying to break in the doors are steel plated with concealed hinges and outward opening so they cant be booted/sledgehammered/rammed in

 

[Dibs-h]

true , although we are a grant funded not for profit organisation so the allowable expense bit doesnt really give us anything

I know - but if you aren't a registered charity & I suspect even if you were, wouldn't be much different - you still get the allowances, so at least one would get teh tax relief.

I ought to point out that i dont make a habit of hanging arround crack dens either - but a bloke i went to college with works on the specialist entry team for the Met and he tells me that every time they hit an organised criminal, or a crack house, or anyone else who is heavy and fears both police and competitors trying to break in the doors are steel plated with concealed hinges and outward opening so they cant be booted/sledgehammered/rammed in

:lol: :lol: :lol: I wasn't suggesting you were - sorry. Good to know tho - won't look at a metal clad outward opening door without wondering if it's a crack house or not. :lol:

 

[big soft moose]

true , although we are a grant funded not for profit organisation so the allowable expense bit doesnt really give us anything

I know - but if you aren't a registered charity & I suspect even if you were, wouldn't be much different - you still get the allowances, so at least one would get teh tax relief.


:

yeah but the point i was making is that we are grant funded so we dont have a taxable income anyway so the allowances dont really give us anything

 

[Mattty]

true , although we are a grant funded not for profit organisation so the allowable expense bit doesnt really give us anything

I know - but if you aren't a registered charity & I suspect even if you were, wouldn't be much different - you still get the allowances, so at least one would get teh tax relief.


:

yeah but the point i was making is that we are grant funded so we dont have a taxable income anyway so the allowances dont really give us anything

Who are you grant funded by BSM? I confess to being very naive about NFP Orgs.

 

[Dibs-h]

true , although we are a grant funded not for profit organisation so the allowable expense bit doesnt really give us anything

I know - but if you aren't a registered charity & I suspect even if you were, wouldn't be much different - you still get the allowances, so at least one would get teh tax relief.


:

yeah but the point i was making is that we are grant funded so we dont have a taxable income anyway so the allowances dont really give us anything

Who are you grant funded by BSM? I confess to being very naive about NFP Orgs.

I'm almost in the same category as Mattty as this one - I'll have to have a bit of a chat with my tame Chartered Accountant, next time I see him (neighbour - so can't be long).

 

[TrimTheKing]

Dibs

Have a look at Hiscox for your insurance. I have them and while my current workshop is attached to the house my previous one was detached and they covered that without a question. All I did to smooth the passage was to inventory everything in it with makes/model/values and pictures and sent it to them, they didn't ask for anything further and wrote to confirm I was fully covered.

Worth a look at least, and they are one of the best insurers in the country.

 

[Dibs-h]

Cheers Mark - will do.

 

[DeanN]

Just quickly skimmed this thread as I'm short of time at the moment. There's lot's of good information, and some good locks mentioned (all of which I fit - again as a trading locksmith). What you need to consider is what your insurer states as a minimum requirement on the doors and windows. No point in shelling out for a 110, a biometric solution, loud alarm, or a huge dog - if the insurer specifies a BS rated lock on the door. If you have a break-in, they will use your selection of locks to wriggle out of paying. Speak to the insurer, and ensure you get in writing whatever is agreed.

 

[Dibs-h]

Just quickly skimmed this thread as I'm short of time at the moment. There's lot's of good information, and some good locks mentioned (all of which I fit - again as a trading locksmith). What you need to consider is what your insurer states as a minimum requirement on the doors and windows. No point in shelling out for a 110, a biometric solution, loud alarm, or a huge dog - if the insurer specifies a BS rated lock on the door. If you have a break-in, they will use your selection of locks to wriggle out of paying. Speak to the insurer, and ensure you get in writing whatever is agreed.

Cheers for the advice. I appreciate that some may frown upon this - but I'm not terribly bothered whether it's insurance approved. As Setch pointed out (& I agree) an Ingersoll SC71 isn't BS rated - but I too would rather have one of those than most BS night latches. With all insurance it's a nbrs game - whilst a lock may have some insecurities but as long as it's above a minimum level and BS approved the Ins Co's have reduced their payouts. I don't actually care too much about the Insurance Companies position - it's my own that bothers me. It would appear that most Ins Co's specify 5 lever dead\sash locks - most haven't got a clue about BS3621 and it's revisions. I suppose that may change over time.

But if by fitting a technically superior and therefore harder to get past lock (or whatever) it reduces the chance of someone making off with my kit - I'd go with that every time over a BS.

I do appreciate all the input. I'm just waiting to hear back from Chubb as to what makes the 110 their flagship lock - which to me it appears to be.

The reason a 110 isn't BS rated is that the bolt is 14mm as opposed to 20mm, but a 110 appears to be commonly fitted to commercial premises.

Also I'd have the huge dog over the alarm, etc. every time! :wink:

 

[DeanN]

Main feature of the 110 is it's use of detainers rather than levers. This makes it much more difficult to pick open - it can be done, but takes a lot of skill and patience. You can also specify the lock with a microswitch to connect into an alarm system (also available on the 3G114 range).

Like all locks, there are numerous ways to open it - none of which we'll enter into on an open forum, apart from the use of the correct key .

It's a good, solid lock and will probably outlive your workshop. Just bear in mind, if someone wants to get into the workshop - they will. You just have to make it a difficult and noisey experience for them.

 

[Dibs-h]

Main feature of the 110 is it's use of detainers rather than levers. This makes it much more difficult to pick open - it can be done, but takes a lot of skill and patience. You can also specify the lock with a microswitch to connect into an alarm system (also available on the 3G114 range).

Like all locks, there are numerous ways to open it - none of which we'll enter into on an open forum, apart from the use of the correct key .

It's a good, solid lock and will probably outlive your workshop. Just bear in mind, if someone wants to get into the workshop - they will. You just have to make it a difficult and noisey experience for them.

I agree - almost all locks can be picked - assuming one has the skill (which isn't all that common especially for detainer locks) and the patience and if you can do it in < 10 mins - cool, 'cos if you start and can't - you'd be in for a painful shock, :wink:

Yes - if someone wants in - then they'd get in - but a bloke stood in a back garden firing up a Stihl saw and cutting his way in - is more than likely to get noticed, especially with nosey neighbours.

 

[big soft moose]

true , although we are a grant funded not for profit organisation so the allowable expense bit doesnt really give us anything

I know - but if you aren't a registered charity & I suspect even if you were, wouldn't be much different - you still get the allowances, so at least one would get teh tax relief.


:

yeah but the point i was making is that we are grant funded so we dont have a taxable income anyway so the allowances dont really give us anything

Who are you grant funded by BSM? I confess to being very naive about NFP Orgs.

we are predominantly funded by natural england with some maintenance funding coming from local authorities who's patch the trails pass through - plus we have the potential to apply for grants from landfil tax, lottery etc for specific projects - none of which is taxable income. ( i supopse technically we arent a true NFP but its the closest easy description , as we dont have charitable status )

 

[big soft moose]

Main feature of the 110 is it's use of detainers rather than levers. This makes it much more difficult to pick open - it can be done, but takes a lot of skill and patience. You can also specify the lock with a microswitch to connect into an alarm system (also available on the 3G114 range).

Like all locks, there are numerous ways to open it - none of which we'll enter into on an open forum, apart from the use of the correct key .

It's a good, solid lock and will probably outlive your workshop. Just bear in mind, if someone wants to get into the workshop - they will. You just have to make it a difficult and noisey experience for them.

oxyacetylene torch will open pretty much any lock - but johnny scrote isnt likely to have one handy - though when i worked in MK one of the maintenance depots was done by someone who used a torch to melt the case hardened and protected padlock - we suspected at the time that it was persons from ther travelling community.