DON'T GET RIPPED OFF!

[trevtheturner]

aa

 

[cambournepete]

A friend bought a Bosch green jigsaw a couple of years ago. He's not used it much, but a month ago the red plastic quick-release blade holder lever snapped. Friend not impressed, so contacted Bosch, who offered to replace saw for him if he sent them the old one. After a little discussion they agreed to pick it up from him as well. All without the till receipt.

Result - one happy customer with a new jigsaw. Well done Bosch.

 

[Mike.C]

Hi Trev,

Thank you very much for the information. The fact is that not many of us know the law and the retailers will certainly not tell us what i rights are.

No offence Tony but yours is typical of how the seller can rip us off. For a major company like PC World to tell him that his digital camera is only guarantee for 28 days is totally diabolical. I do hope you sorted it out in the end Tony.

Well done Trev

Regards

Mike.C

 

[Mike.C]

Hi Cambournepete,

Well done Bosch, i wish that all companies acted like them.

Regards

Mike.C

 

[mudman]

As you may have read in another thread, I often have to go back to the seller. I also find that it is very rare that you have to start quoting things like 'fit for purpose' 'sale of goods act' and the like. But when you do, you generally reveal yourself as someone who has done his homework and things are very soon put right.
Last time I had this was when my son's PC keeled over with a knackered BIOS. I contacted the company who told me that as it was out of warranty that I'd have to phone the support line at £1.00 a minute :shock:
After calmly explaining that this was not acceptable and using a suitable phrase 'fit for purpose' this time. A disk was despatched that reached me the next day.
Mind you that still didn't work. I should have invoiced them for time spent. Never thought of that. :twisted:

Cheers,
Barry

 

[Anonymous]

One thing to be aware of - the sale of goods act applies to the private consumer, and does not extend to business AFAIK.

I used to work in the computer industry and their standard warranty terms were 90 days. Beyond that and you had to purchase a service agreement.

Andrew

 

[trevtheturner]

Hi Handymac,

The Act does, in fact, cover both.

A buyer who buys in the course of a business is defined as a 'purchaser'.
A person not buying in the course of a business is defined as a 'consumer'.

The reason they are defined separately is because slightly different rules apply to 'consumers.' Both may seek damages of an amount necessary to have the goods repaired or replaced. But a 'consumer' has the statutory right to seek repair or replacement as an alternative to seeking damages.

Service agreements are fine for routine maintenance and normal wear and tear repairs, but cannot override the Act in respect of goods having to conform to contract.

Some retailers also positively encourage consumers to purchase "extended warranties". These again can cloud an issue, but cannot override the provisions of the Act.

Cheers,

Trev.

 

[trevtheturner]

Hi, Barry,

Exactly! It's worth knowing the game, isn't it? - it usually works without things going too far if you a have a genuine case and won't let yourself be put off. Good on you!

Cheers,

Trev.

 

[johnelliott]

Best advice I can offer to anyone buying a washing machine or similar, buy from a really big company. If it all goes wrong and the nan behind the counter tells you to p*** off, and he owns the company, then you are going to have to go to court. If OTOH he is merely a manager, and there's a big cheese in London or somewhere, then the chances are you can get it sorted with some carefully applied aggro
John[/i]

 

[Anonymous]

Didn't work for me for Screwfix a few months back.

I needed a tool urgently for a job. I paid the £9 premium delivery charge to deliver the next day before 10am.

At 10:05am the next day I phoned Screwfix to ask where my order was, thinking it was running a bit late. I was told "oops, sorry sir, it's in the warehouse having been packed but we forgot to ship it last night". I lost a days productivity.

Despite the fuss I made I didn't get an apology or a £5 voucher. It took Screwfix over a week to refund the £9.

Andrew

 

[mudman]

One tip I was given was to never complain to the complaints department. The best people to complain to are the ones at the top. They do care (generally) if the company's name is getting besmirched.
A great way to do this is to find out the name of the managing director, also find out what format the company e-mail addresses take. Got to their website and find a few contact addresses to do this. Then send a load of e-mails to [email protected], [email protected], [email protected] and whatever other combinations you can think of. It's a fair bet that one of these will be the right one and get to the man in question and action will be taken.
It really does work, my wife did it and a colleague did as well and results are usually quite rapidly forthcoming. Even if he passes it on to the complaints dept. they will generally deal with it knowing the boss is interested.

 

[Terry Smart]

A little something to add to this thread which I don't think has been mentioned yet; a law passed in 2000 which comes under the 'Distance Selling Regulations' allows for a seven day 'cooling off' period on any purchase made by mail order, telephone, internet etc.
The main reason for this is to allow the buyer to an opportunity to examine the goods to make sure they are what was expected.
Most companies worth dealing with will offer this as a matter of course, but if someone tries to tell you you can't change your mind on something bought in this way they are wrong. So long as you notify them within seven days and can return the item unused and in original packing they have to accept it back.

For more information see

http://www.oft.gov.uk/Consumer/Your+Rights+When+Shopping+From+Home/shopping+from+home+cancelling.htm

(and no, this isn't the reason we don't have a mail order service!!!)

 

[Anonymous]

Good post Trev.

Further legislation to that already mentioned is set out in "The unfair terms in consumer contracts regulations 1999"

When I was in dispute with a rather large company well known to all of us I had cause to quote section 5 of the act and I quote

" UNFAIR TERMS
5. - (1) A contractual term which has not been individually negotiated shall be regarded as unfair if, contrary to the requirement of good faith, it causes a significant imbalance in the parties' rights and obligations arising under the contract, to the detriment of the consumer.

Many firms have clauses in their T&C's which would contravene the act in this respect.

If you think that a firms T&C's may be unfair in any dispute you find yourself in, this is a very handy section

It has certainly helped me in the past.

cheers

billzee

 

[Anonymous]

Despite the fuss I made I didn't get an apology or a £5 voucher. It took Screwfix over a week to refund the £9

With respect, you didn't try hard enough.

Some companys only capitulate when court action is imminent and this makes it tough on consumers when they get a raw deal.

The only way though is to push it to the wire. Its the only way to keep some firms on their toes.

 

[trevtheturner]

Hi billzee,

Didn't know about those 1999 Regs. I'll look them up and have a read.

Thanks for the info. - very worthwhile knowing because, in my experience, terms & conditions are often biased against the customer, apparently in contravention of the Reg. you have quoted.

Cheers,

Trev.

 

[Anonymous]

Hi Trev,

No offence Tony but yours is typical of how the seller can rip us off. For a major company like PC World to tell him that his digital camera is only guarantee for 28 days is totally diabolical. I do hope you sorted it out in the end Tony.


Mike.C

Mike. This is not what I actually said. PCWorld did not say that it was covered for only 28 days. They stated that it became the responsibility of the manufacturer after 28 days - this is very common practice amongst shops of this type and does not contravene any laws/regulations.

I now have a brand new camera delivered to my house on 12th July just as PCWorld/HP agreed.

A little more hassle than I expected but all OK in the end

 

[Mike.C]

Hi Tony,

I am sorry, i know that you are 100% convinced of what you say, but over the last few days i have been in touch with Trading standards, Citizens Advice and all over the web (nothing to do with Axminster i just want to know my rights), and no matter what PC World told you it is not the responsibility of the manufacturer after 28 days. In fact as far as you are concerned it is not the responsibility of the manufacturer at all. Your contract is with PC World and not HP. The contract with HP is between PC World and themselves. In law HP do not have to deal with you at all. Although i have found out that it would be very rare for them to refuse to help you even if only as a gesture of good will.

It seems that most of us are ill informed or we do not know our rights at all, and this includes a lot of staff that work for these companies.

Trev seems to know a lot about the law so just ask him, or go to a Citizens Advice or Trading Standards site and you can see for yourself. These sites are there to help us and they are not going to post the rules/regs if they are not true.

These companies try to feed us with a load of rubbish and most of us believe them. As has been mentioned before these companies tell you how long the warranty is for etc, etc, and usually in very small letters they quote the law (because they have to) "This does not affect you statutory Rights" and some of your statutory rights i have already told you.

I am glad that you got a new camera and i hope that you enjoy it for many moons to come.

All the best

Mike.C

 

[trevtheturner]

Hi Tony,

Mike.C is absolutely correct in what he says.

Pleased to hear your problem is sorted but, in law, PC World should have provided you directly with a replacement. Look at it this way - regardless of what PC World choose to tell their customers, if it came to it who would you sue? Not HP because you haven't bought anything from them! PC World buy goods from HP and then retail them - that is what they choose to do. Your contract is between yourself and PC World only.

Cheers,

Trev.

 

[Anonymous]

HI guys

I do not dispute what you say. However, here is PCworld's terms and conditions which clearly cannot contravene any laws or they would be sued mercilessly

'If there is a fault with your product within 12 months of delivery (or other defect with your order), we will normally offer a prompt repair, exchange or refund. We will always offer you the choice of an exchange or refund if the fault occurs within 28 days of delivery.

To qualify for a refund or exchange the product must be:-

in otherwise in 'as-new' condition;
complete with any accessories and free gifts offered with it (and, if possible, the original box and packaging). '

In my case they did just this. They accepted that the item required repair and was more than 28 days old. HP took over from there.

PCWorld only employs morons who know jack about PCs (especially their 'technical support people'). I know this because I DO know a lot about PCs as processor based systems and software development formed a major part of my degree and current degree level teaching.

To be honest, would any self respecting IT graduate with any knowledge about PCs work for the wages they pay?

Rant over (I get embarrased hearing the crap PCWorlds 'technicians' dish out to the public)

 

[Newbie_Neil]

Hi all

Slightly off topic, but not too much.

Did you hear the one about the person who took their pc back to a well known high street electrical retailer and had their money back. He was told all of his data would be removed before it was put up for sale again.

OK, you've probably guessed it.

Two weeks later he goes to another branch of the same well known high street electrical retailer on the other side of town and buys another pc. He gets it home and what do you know, it is the original pc complete with all of his data.

Cheers
Neil

PC I was told this story by an ex-employee of the well known high street electrical retailer.