Domino fences

[Spectric]

Hi all

If you think of the Domino 700xl it is in essence a large biscuit jointer that makes holes for oblong dowels rather than slots for biscuits, it certainly sounds the same so do some of the methods of using a biscuit jointer also apply? Ie quote " It is also much easier to keep the machine flat by working from the base for as many cuts as you can. I only use the fence as a last resort. " from A New Manual for Biscuit Joiners | Popular Woodworking Magazine and many others also advocate the use of the base as a reference rather than the fence. This brings me onto these items from Woodpecker that also seem to place more emphasis on referencing using the base on dominos

https://www.woodpeck.com/df500-offset-base-system.html
Whats peoples thoughts and experiences ?

 

[Nelsun]

"It depends". On a good flat surface you do get quick and reliable registration using the base rather than the fence. However, what you gain with this method, you lose in quick and easy depth of mortice when registering off the fence. You can work with this by shimming the relevant piece to raise or lower the mortice - I have a number of plastic sheets of various thicknesses for this very purpose.

I'd typically register off the base when morticing pieces that are narrower than the fence; where you won't get good registration using said fence.

 

[Blister]

As nice as the Woodpecker system is , Yikes $485 plus shipping handling and 20% vat = ££££ lots

Do you really need it as the front fence on the 500 and 700 is adjustable for height , Also with the Domino you cans set it for tight joints , medium and loose joints

I can't justify spending that amount as nice as it looks

 

[Doug71]

I almost always use the fence for reference as I don't trust things being truly flat on the bench, also the fence seems quicker. I only work off the base if doing the shelf thing (Domino users will know what I mean) or narrow stock as mentioned.

The Woodpecker gadget works off the base of the Domino, think the Domiplate was the first to do this but kind of works upside down. The Domiplate and similar always get great reviews but they are for use with sheet or thinner material really, couldn't imagine using one on the XL.

https://www.senecawoodworking.com/products/domiplate-for-1-2-and-3-4-ply

 

[gmgmgm]

This came up on a recent discussion of cheaper biscuit joiners. On a cheap biscuit joiner, the fence is made of wriggling jelly, so you should always use the base whenever you can. The advice you quote is probably referring to not-top-end biscuit joiners, and or where there isn't much material to rest a fence on securely.

A more expensive biscuit joiner has a decent fence, as does my Domino 500.

So good advice in general, but you're fine to trust your Domino 700 fence.

 

[Spectric]

Hi

Another querry to you experienced domino 700 users. When placing multiple dominos along a workpiece how accurate is the alignment, is it accurate enough to not need the sloppy fit setting? I can place dowels with a Dowelmax extremely accurately and the dowels are all a tight fit but having already questioned the Woodpecker jig I now find another made by FC tools at £370. For someone to purchase these jigs at that price there must be a market which therefore shows an issue with the accuracy of the domino machine especially as it has a sloppy fit setting and they reference the base plate not the fence. Are these aftermarket jigs just gimics, speed up the process, just not required or am I looking to hard?

 

[custard]

Hi

Another querry to you experienced domino 700 users. When placing multiple dominos along a workpiece how accurate is the alignment, is it accurate enough to not need the sloppy fit setting?

I've never managed to align multiple Domino hole without the sloppy fit setting, and that applies to both the 500 and 700. The one possible exception is when using "stacked" dominos, ie above each other as well as side by side. By shimming the base plate I've managed to get two stacked Dominos perfectly aligned.

I've got the RTS Engineering "Multi Position Guide Stop"

https://www.rockler.com/rts-enginee...uide-stop-adds-mortising-stops-festool-domino
In theory that promises multiple Dominos all on the tight setting. In my experience it's not really practical. It can be done, but it requires an awfully long set up time with several test pieces. It might be worthwhile for long production runs but not otherwise.

FC Tools do a Domino jig that's designed for multiple dominos on the tight setting

https://fctools.co.uk/product/domino-alignment-jig-system-daj-dlux
I've never used it, but I once worked in a workshop that had a similar rail system for the Mafell duo dowel system, that worked well so I see no reason the FC jig wouldn't work just as well for dominos.

The sloppy setting is absolutely critical to real world Domino usage. IMO one of the real advantages of the 700 over the 500 is that it gives you a relatively modest 3mm sloppy fit, personally I'd like something even smaller, say 1.5mm. But the two sloppy settings on the 500 are "big" and "bigger", and they're both way too big!

 

[Ollie78]

Spectric

It is as accurate as your marks and how well you aim. The registration with the fence and face of the machine is very good on large sheet material and bigger components. If using it for a long board joint or something I will tend to do the holes along one side on the tight setting and on the other with loose.
If you do everything on tight it will be very tight to assemble.
The reasoning for the jigs is I think for repeatable speed in a more production environment. You could be very quick and accurate. The cross stop that comes with the machine is good but flimsy and can be knocked about easily.
Those jigs remove the possibility of cocking up the registration from using just a mark or the cross stop.

Ollie

 

[Nelsun]

It's not hard to flip the width setting switch (so long as you remember) and be sure you will probably forget no more than once!

The FC Tools jig does look very clever but I reckon you'd really need to be doing a lot of repetitive work to bother using it - part of the charm of the Domino is the ability to quickly put holes with quickly made marks after all.

A story stick can get similar results where accuracy is key. Or even some benchdogs.co.uk fence dogs, a bit of their fence extrusion and some of their flag stops also makes for a good repeatable system for going across a board repeatedly. iMHO a lot of what I do with Dominos doesn't require flea hair positioning - just that mortices line up with each other.

Most times a row of tight matched to a row of one tight and the rest wide is plenty fine for me anyway.

 

[Spectric]

Hi all

Great info, thanks. If you had a line of perfectly aligned dominos on the normal fit would that cause assembly issues? With a Dowelmax I can place a line of 10mm dowels, say five groups of three and can close the joint using clamps. Is the difference because the dominos have a larger length or just because of alignment issues? Suggestion here would be the Dowelmax approach, rather than mark the position of each domino, reference from the last domino. With the Dowelmax you get an "Item" that fits into a dowel hole and has a bar that can be adjusted for length, by using this in a dowel hole and bringing the dowelmax into contact before clamping the dowels are accurately spaced, referenced to dowel holes and not marks you have made. So with the domino having made one hole, if you now fit a domino and use say a piece of wood to space from this domino to the edge of the machine it may well solve some of these issues and is a lot cheaper than the Fcc item, although well engineered for the average user not cheap. I dont like the idea of a sloppy fit, with loose tennon joinery the tennon for me has always fitted into the mortice snug, no play. Ok so the 700 is less sloppy than the 500 which really puts me off the 500, less plunge depth and increased ability for sloppyness.

 

[MikeK]

Roy, the only time I had to use the looser fit on a set of tenons was when I prepared five 2-inch thick oak boards that were eight inches wide and five feet long. The boards were being shipped far away and glued up at the destination to make a larger desk top.

I didn't want to take any chances that the boards could not be joined whenever they arrived at the destination, so I used a combination of normal and loose settings on the DF 500 when I cut the mortises. I used the tight setting for all of the mortises on one edge of four of the boards, the tight setting on the middle mortise of the mating surfaces, and the first loose setting on the remaining mortises of the mating surfaces.

Each board had a 10x50mm tenon about six inches from each end, and the rest were spaced about ten inches apart along the length of the board. To make sure the boards were assembled in the correct order for grain matching, I intentionally shifted the location of the center tenon. I never received any feedback, so I assume the assembly was good.

If I was going to glue up the boards immediately, I would have used the tight setting for all of the mortises.

 

[Spectric]

If I was going to glue up the boards immediately, I would have used the tight setting for all of the mortises.

Hi Mike

That gives me confidence, if you are careful and meticulous with the process then no issues but if you want more speed then sloppy fit helps. That makes sense to me because if you want speed and good fit in a more production enviroment then a £370 jig from the likes of FC pays for itself but taking time can achieve same results.