Does Builder need permission to connect new house to sewer on my land?

[Jackbequick]

That last bit is key. In my very limited experience, the contractor/developer can be quite keen to backfill ASAP, inspection or not.

It recently happened next door (last year). We are on heavy clay, and I advised my neighbour that the new pipe run needed to be bedded well on heavy chippings, not just on the clay at the bottom of the trench. Don't know quite why, but this was ignored: although a lot of chippings were chucked in the trench they were on top and alongside the pipe, which did sit on bare clay. Now the property's soil stack (for three flats) has sunk into the ground by about one or two inches - anybody's guess what's happening underground.

I know the inspector should have signed off the open trench, but I never saw one on site at all. I suspect it wasn't inspected. Now, instead of a trivial issue, they may well have a rather big and expensive one. The contractor "wasn't from round here" either, which might have had a bearing. It's not the first time I have seen similar, either.

[edit] This project was an extension to the GFF, so I think the building inspector should have signed off...

Not correct..not 'chips' the pipe should have been laid on 100% consolidated sand..thickness of sand support...depends on weight and size of pipe but start with say ten inches. 100% consolidation normally achieved by flooding the sanded trench

 

[Chris70]

Oh for goodness sakes boys, I wish you could hear yourselves. Stop bickering! I thought this forum was quite good and I still do, but all this mud slinging is a bit much. I’ve just read, “War happens, in part, because people have retained our animal instincts about land.” Peace and goodwill to all men.

 

[Jackbequick]

"It seems to be a ongoing theme on this forum that certain (predominantly old and financially comfortable)"

There's the old monkey on the back surfacing again from someone who was very happy to accept free money from the government which will have to be paid back by us the taxpayers and all the while complaining that everyone will suffer financially. If that person had the morals he insists he has he wouldn't have taken those £thousands . Most of the members he keeps referring to have worked hard all their lives and managed to pay off their 25 or 30 year mortgages, maybe one day he will too or perhaps he doesn't need one as trolls live in holes in the ground.

As another member already stated, when a utility company puts a pipe through your land they impose a restriction on that strip of land which stops you building directly over it, planting trees etc. Remember it's not their land it's yours,

"they impose a restriction on that strip of land which stops you building directly over it," not only over it but within some metres of it...and access will be forceable IF there is an easement created. The behaviour of the 'builder' is not unusual for plumber-drainers who are used to bullying people. They are trespassing on your land whatever their purpose if no easement presently exists for the drainage. I wouldn't worry about the pious pseudo-socialism of your detractors. Your land comes with specified rights, it is not public land although all ultimately belongs to the Crown...the ultimate bullies created through fantasy and violence to the point people think they are gods of a kind. There is the illusion of parliament being your representative but the more likely access for you would ultimately be magisterial or if you have a land tribunal...them. Serious land disputes go to higher courts. Stop it now by restricting their trespass.

If you do nothing now it can be argued your capitulated. As one commenter suggested, block access and give the trespassers notice, advise police. They may wriggle out telling you 'civil matter' but no..trespass is a law breaking, that's your ace in the pack. When they lay pipe on your land they may apply for an easement and your land value will decrease. Steve (the 'lawyer' ) is not correct about 'Capital Gains' you do not incur capital gain by taking a position for income from allowing actions which diminishes the value of your land. Income is merely income. Capital gains arise when the land is sold at a profit owing to increase in demand or works done by yourself or a public entity increase the sale-able value but only when the increased value is realised. You'll find me correct.

 

[Jackbequick]

"It seems to be a ongoing theme on this forum that certain (predominantly old and financially comfortable)"

There's the old monkey on the back surfacing again from someone who was very happy to accept free money from the government which will have to be paid back by us the taxpayers and all the while complaining that everyone will suffer financially. If that person had the morals he insists he has he wouldn't have taken those £thousands . Most of the members he keeps referring to have worked hard all their lives and managed to pay off their 25 or 30 year mortgages, maybe one day he will too or perhaps he doesn't need one as trolls live in holes in the ground.

As another member already stated, when a utility company puts a pipe through your land they impose a restriction on that strip of land which stops you building directly over it, planting trees etc. Remember it's not their land it's yours,

To impose a restriction negotiations should occur to the point you are seriously compensated. Your difficulty arises when it (pipe laying)happens and you want it removed. You do have remedy at court. Your decision (capitulation) can affect all future owners Unless there is a statutory right or an easement created or permission in the original subdivision of the land or some addle pated fool or machinater of council permission for development of the land 'back when' has given permission on title for such works to proceed...and believe me (please) that such is not uncommonly found in a title search...Examine your title, meanwhile put in a trespass complaint to police and discuss the matter ...without giving in...with the Council Engineer for their opinion and have it in writing, That commits them.

 

[Jackbequick]

I am a lawyer by profession. This is the answer.

with land law, everything comes down to the deeds/ registered title. You need to get someone to check that for you.

I assume there is no pre-existing easement allowing the neighbour to lay pipes etc.

If anyone wants to access your land and connect to your sewer, they will need your agreement which you can refuse.

My guess is that it will save them money to tap into your sewer.

so this is all about money. How much will they save by going through your land, versus how much they have to pay you for an easement.

to my mind this should be a five figure sum, as any easement will need to “run with the land” and will grant long term rights.

so first things first. Ask how much they are prepared to pay for the privilege. unless It is a five figure sum, I might be inclined to say no.

in any event there will need to be an easement registered at the land registry and legal drafting.

if the developer is seriouS, then I would ask them to pay you £750 up front, non returnable on account of your legal fees. Then go see a decent property solicitor who will advise from there.

DON’T FORGET TAX. In effect you will be selling an interest in your land, which will attract capital gains tax. Take that into account in agreeing the deal.

all the best.
steve

I have commented elsewhere Steve on an incorrect statement you made...your last. That aside The land's value is being reduced perhaps significantly in currency value and sale-ability. You have said nothing of trespass. He should block access and make complaint to police...sticking to trespass i.e. to tort and not civil matters which include your right to peaceful occupancy.

I add from experience with builders that they will commonly disobey laws and regulations finding it cheaper to pay fines that say Council requisitions (e.g. payment for parking rights against normal restrictions). In your case they are banking on you being a mug/overawed/ presuming they have some right owing to their hard hat boots and reflective clothing to enter your land but 'even more-so.'..to dig it up and use it in a way detrimental to you whether you know it or the extent of it. . 'No way Jose!!'

Your fear and anxiety and worry will continue long after these bully boys have packed up and gone Do not take Steve's advice about the $750.00...no one will pay you to act against them unless they get an advantage...and you would be giving that to them by accepting money. NO..stay at arms length and use the legal process readily available. Do however give notice in writing of the trespass and demand the people do not enter your land for any purpose. Any negotiating can be held in a place where...and here I agree with Steve where either pro-bono ..perhaps from a community aid organisation, or a local solicitor perhaps who is prepared to work within your finances...at the conference.

Be clear what you want and what you do not want. Know your title and any initial subdivision restrictions or permissions on your title. Don't give in to bullies....ignore this pseudo socialist claptrap which seems to be emerging and stand up for your land...i.e. for yourself. Don't spend any more than absolutely necessary and tell any solicitor not to respond to anything but critical issues...one way of suppressing dissent is to try to rack up legal bills...theirs are tax deductions...yours are not however a decision by court may find them refilling your pocket and the solicitors if your case and presentation is good and you know exactly what you want and the magistrate /judge/ tribunal can work on that.

Stop talking about it and start with a notice for them to not enter your land for any purpose. Don't say 'unless with my express permission' as that sounds as though you are blustering. Block the access...but leave a walkway... there is a general right to access your front door and you then also have a right to tell the caller to leave your land directly and immediately.

Keep a diary of all matters and a copy of your notice or any correspondences...though there should be none once you have demanded a stop to trespass. ...and where possible photographs and recording for later reference...however a diary done at the time can significantly impress an arbitrator because courts take a view that memory is reconstruction of events flavored by emotions and self interest.

You can write how you feel, in a diary but have the 'why' right there to,.Be fair, accurate and as far as possible provable. Do not commence in any 'money matters' that will weaken your case. Do realise also that technical law is not always what convinces a judge (say) but the way people behave when giving evidence. You will commonly find in Appeals that the judges say "I do not have the ability of the primary judge to gauge the behaviour of witnesses'...or words to that effect.

The initial matter is simple..you do not want them or their pipes on your land and no negotiations were ever entered into for access. They are trespassers Use firstly the available power..police and council... but act.

 

[Jackbequick]

Easy to pontificate on 'peace to all men' and 'love they neighbour...open your arms and heart to being abused' , however this is a serious breach of the man's rights to his land and the bullies should be sent off...We all though protesting 'democracy' fantasy are in denial, that we don't live in socialist, even communal politics and reality. We do.

The greatest infliction of injustice on people (other than 'adverse possession') is within communist regimes and the worst of them including Russian billionaires and the likes of filthy rich dictators such as Idi Amin are welcomed into Britain. The hypocrisy is embedded in the people in the power-elite. It is furthered by 'appeasement'.

The pious, sanctimonious comments about a sort of 'love thy neighbour' disregards law and equity' herein is sad. It's easy to characterise a man fighting for his land when it isn't yours and you suffer no loss or restriction or would be happy to do so were it your situation.

The sickness of globalisation and the movement to one world government (by bankers) is a pandemic worse than CV-19. It is well advanced, that plan by Mayer Amschel Bauer. Supporting bullies is a destructive societal position and it is bullies who will control you unless you fight...in this case for your land and your right to freedom from bully boys and your right to peaceful enjoyment of your land. Unless you resist where resistance is lawful or traditional you slowly and progressively allow an ebbing-away of the rights of all people.

 

[Steve Blackdog]

@Jackbequick
This is not the place to give legal advice and if you look at my post, it was not my intention to give advice, least of all tax advice.
Good luck!

 

[Cabinetman]

Chris70, The vast majority of people on here are decent hard-working people who just want to help each other, but there’s always a few who just love to have a go. So when they do I drop that thread and look at something more interesting and let them get on with it. They won’t listen and you won’t change their minds so it’s not worth the effort. Cheers Ian
Ps, ignoring them also really annoys them!

 

[Blackswanwood]

It worries me sometimes when I see incorrect rambling in posts like this that are opinion rather than fact. @Steve Blackdog has summed up the legal position accurately (as a lawyer) ... not sure why someone living in a different legal and tax jurisdiction feels the need to contradict him.

 

[Woody2Shoes]

Not correct..not 'chips' the pipe should have been laid on 100% consolidated sand..thickness of sand support...depends on weight and size of pipe but start with say ten inches. 100% consolidation normally achieved by flooding the sanded trench

JBQ - I notice that you're somewhere in the 'Pacific Region' - I think you need to take care with some of your advice, in that it may not take account of variations local regulations/codes. In England, 5mm pea shingle (not necessarily sand) is a perfectly acceptable bedding medium for 4" foul drain pipes.

 

[Chris70]

Cabinetman: thanks. I just thought I’d give my two penn’orth, without wishing to be “sanctimonious”.

 

[MikeK]

This thread has run its course and Doug's issue was resolved. Given the amount of moderation required so far on this thread, now is a good time to close it.