Dodd planer electrical issue

[usbrit]

I have a Dodd jointer/planer that I inherited in non working condition. I have basic electrical knowledge and a multimeter, but can't figure out where to start fault finding.

Fuse is good, but nothing when trying to start.

Does anyone have a manual or schematic for the SEC magnetic contactor and thermal overload or could walk me through troubleshooting?

Thanks
David

 

[usbrit]

Btw, realised that the centre black button is a interlock that needs pressing and that there is a thermal overload reset, but have tried both positions of this with no luck.

 

[MikeK]

I'm not going to start a long online troubleshooting procedure for your P/T, but will suggest a few checks to possibly eliminate the contactor or the motor.

In the photo below, the Mains input are the bottom terminals. Terminal U/2 is the Mains Neutral conductor (blue wire) and Terminal W/6 is the Mains Line conductor (brown wire). You should have a green wire somewhere in that bundle that is the Mains Earth conductor that connects to the green wire to the motor. It could (should) be attached to an earthing terminal somewhere in the box.

The Mains connections are the top terminals. Terminal R/1 is the Mains Neutral conductor (blue wire) and Terminal T/5 is the Mains Line conductor.

The black button in the middle of the contactor is the manual start button, and I usually use this for testing. In normal operation, when the Start button is pressed and the contactor engages, you will see this button pulled down into the contactor.

The white button next to the current overload setting wheel should be the overload reset.

If you are proficient with a multimeter, I recommend verifying you have the correct voltage at the wall-mounted receptacle. If this is good, plug the P/T in and check for the correct voltage between Terminals R/1 and T/5 at the Mains input to the contactor.

If the voltage at the contactor input is good, then connect the leads of the multimeter to Terminals U/2 and W/6 at the bottom of the contactor. You should not see any voltage yet.

While holding the leads on the terminals, press in the Manual Start button in the middle of the contactor. You should see the correct voltage on Terminals U/2 and W/6. If not, then the contactor is bad. If you do see the voltage, and the motor doesn't start and the contactor does not latch, then check for the correct voltage at the output of the overload relay Terminals U/2 and W/6.

If you see the correct voltage at the output of the overload relay, then there are problems with the motor or motor wiring. If you do not see the correct voltage, try resetting the overload relay by pressing the manual reset tab.

Manually pressing the black button in the middle of the contactor removes the start and stop buttons, contactor coil, and auxiliary contacts from the test. If there is no voltage to the motor, then the problem is with this unit. However, I wouldn't buy one until I determined it was the problem.

Good luck!

Update: Thanks to @Distinterior for pointing out my mistake. I broke one of my three golden rules: Never get involved in a land war in Asia; Never go against a Sicilian when death is on the line; and Never post technical information when I'm tired.

 

[Spectric]

I would suggest your first action should be to buy a new DOL starter as they are not that expensive and will give you a good starting point in getting this machine running. They will also have a wiring diagram often in the cover which may help further.

 

[Inspector]

I'm a barbarian and would shut off the breaker at the panel. Hook the mains straight to the motor. Turn the breaker on and if the motor comes to life it is the switch. If it doesn't then something is wrong with the motor that may or may not be fixable.

Pete

 

[sawtooth-9]

I agree - that DOL looks really "bad"
It's a good start to ensure your DOL and overload are good - so I would replace this.
Yes, you can hook up the motor direct to the power source and check that out.
If it is a motor problem - its either as simple as a capacitor, or a winding issue.

 

[Distinterior]

I'm not familiar with that particular contactor, but in principle, they are all pretty much the same.
As much as I dont want to disagree with MikeK.....all the basic wiring diagrams I've looked at for various contactors show the L & N in connect to the top connections (R/1, S/3 & T/5)......and the output to the motor is from the overload at the bottom ( U/2, V/4 & W/6).

I recently wired up and tested 2 old contactors ( an MEM and a Danfoss) and both of them were wired as I've described above and worked perfectly well.

The first thing I would check if I were you, is to make sure the coil in the contactor is still okay. This is easy to do if you have a multimeter. You just need to find the 2 connections for the coil and measure it to ensure there is continuity across the connections.
The White switches to the right with the Yellow wires are your stop and start buttons and will be connected via terminals 13 & 14.

This drawing below may help and explains the basic connections, although the numbers/ letters on the terminals maybe different to what you have on your contactor but the basic layout is the same on all of them.

 

[MikeK]

I'm not familiar with that particular contactor, but in principle, they are all pretty much the same.
As much as I dont want to disagree with MikeK.....all the basic wiring diagrams I've looked at for various contactors show the L & N in connect to the top connections

Doh! You are correct. It was late when I made the post, but will correct it when I have time later this evening.

 

[Phill05]

I would say first port of call would be get an airline and blow out all the dust then try.

 

[rogxwhit]

If it is a motor problem - its either as simple as a capacitor, or a winding issue.

Or the centrifugal switch on a cap-start 1-phase ...

 

[Distinterior]

Doh! You are correct. It was late when I made the post, but will correct it when I have time later this evening.

I was questioning my own research after I read your post #3 and was wondering how my 2 contactors were working fine...!

 

[usbrit]

Update:

Haven't had much time to look at this, but thanks for all the help.

I didn't realize the centre black button was an overide.

Pushing this resulted in the RCD in the house consumer unit!

Some I'm guessing a short to ground somewhere.

Will disassemble a bit more and check cables before I do anything else.

Thanks again!

 

[Spectric]

A bit of nit picking but L1, L2 & L3 are your phase lives and that drawing shows a single phase motor wired across two phases with a 400 volt DOL coil . So that L2 needs to be N and you don't find a protective device in the N but if it was L2 then you would but then L3 is missing and the motor would be three phase.

 

[Distinterior]

A bit of nit picking but L1, L2 & L3 are your phase lives and that drawing shows a single phase motor wired across two phases with a 400 volt DOL coil . So that L2 needs to be N and you don't find a protective device in the N but if it was L2 then you would but then L3 is missing and the motor would be three phase.

Which drawing are you referring to Spectric...? The one I posted up in post #7...?

 

[Spectric]

Hi

Well I now know what that number means! yes in 7

 

[Distinterior]

Sorry Spectric,....I'm not really sure what you are trying to say....?

Surely, this drawing below is for a 3 phase motor and the one in my post #7, is for a single phase motor...??

 

[HOJ]

This drawing below may help and explains the basic connections, although the numbers/ letters on the terminals maybe different to what you have on your contactor but the basic layout is the same on all of them.

Works for me.

 

[Spectric]

Surely, this drawing below is for a 3 phase motor and the one in my post #7, is for a single phase motor...??

Yes that one is for a three phase motor running just three phase and no neutral, Brown, Black and Grey being the new harmonised colors for L1, L2 and L3.

The previous drawing shows a single phase motor but connected to L1 and L2 which are two of the three phases and no neutral !!

 

[Distinterior]

Yes that one is for a three phase motor running just three phase and no neutral, Brown, Black and Grey being the new harmonised colors for L1, L2 and L3.

The previous drawing shows a single phase motor but connected to L1 and L2 which are two of the three phases and no neutral !!

I hear what you are saying now......I appreciate that that drawing could be a bit misleading now you've mentioned it....I just assumed that L1 was live and L2 was neutral and I think that is what the drawing is meant to show......I wired both my 240v contactors( as mentioned above) assuming that L2 was neutral, and everything works as it should..