DIY plane for making simple grooves - advice needed

[Denis]

First, since this is my first post here, let me introduce myself - my name is Denis (male), and I'm a freelance translator from Croatia.

I've only got interested in woodworking a few months ago, in a roundabout way - via photography, my first hobby. I use analog (film-based) cameras, and lately I've been shooting mostly with ancient large format wooden cameras, which sometimes need small repairs and adaptations - thus some knowledge of woodworking was required

I also made some simple wooden boxes for storing my large format lenses, and it really got me interested in woodworking. My main interest is box making...

I got some "tailed" tools, but wasn't really happy with them - I mean, woodworking is a hobby for me, and I detest the noise and dust those tailed tools make - I'd rather use hand tools and work in relative silence. The tailed router is particularly annoying

Thus, it wasn't long before I found this forum.

I've been reading older posts here a lot - mostly on hand planes, and also admiring the planes made by Philly and others, and it wasn't long before I got some "proper" tools - cheap plane variants and knock-offs mostly, since Stanley, LV, LN and other planes are virtually unknown here - but wooden planes can still be found new in stores (sometimes).

Here's a quick shot of part of my "arsenal" so far..

Finally, to my question - I'm about to try to make same wooden planes myself. After seeing all the wonderful planes the members here make, the next step was to buy some books (Finck's and Hack's), get some blades made and get some wood

One of the first planes I intend to make is probably not a good idea for the first DIY plane, but I'd like to try it, nevertheless.

Namely, I need some kind of plane which would be used in making simple grooves - mainly in box-making, for grooved recesses in the sides for bottoms of boxes, etc.
Rather simple stuff, really, but the dimensions are a problem. For bottoms of my (rather small) boxes, I usually use 4mm plywood, so I need a specialty plane that would be used to make 4mm wide grooves, mostly in thin box sides, usually oak, pine, wenge, padauk, etc. The sides of such boxes are usually from 5mm to 10mm thick.

So, I had a couple of 4mm wide blades made (along with some others for future planes...), and now I'm thinking about the plane design. The blades are 4mm wide, 5mm thick, and about 12 cm long.

Here's a photo of some of the blades I had made - on of the two thin ones (lower two on the photo) will be used for my "grooving" plane:

(The ruler is metric )

Now I'm considering the best (relatively simple) design of my future "grooving" plane, and decided to ask for help here.

In short, it needs to make 4mm wide grooves (along the grain, usually), and the depth of those grooves is usually from 3 to 5 mm - just enough to hold the bottom of the box (similar to drawer bottoms, I guess). Since the bottom is usually plywood, I don't have to worry much about wood movements, and the grooves are relatively shallow and tight.

I was thinking about using the general shape of rebate (rabbet) plane, "sandwiched" from 3 slices of beech, but I'm not sure about the sole profile. I guess the center "slice" which houses the blade, should protrude below, forming a kind of "skate", like the fillister or plough planes - about 5mm tall, since that's the max depth of the grooves I'll be using. Also, I'm not restricted to beech - I also have some relatively thin planks of wenge, padauk, jatoba, oak, etc - obtained from flooring suppliers :wink: - so this centrer slice can be e.g oak or something else.

Any hints or suggestions regarding the design and wood to use would be more than welcome.

Thanks in advance (and sorry for the long post),

Denis

 

[Denis]

ehhhhh,

Could any "senior" members link the photos from my original post?

Thanks!

Denis

 

[dchenard]

Bienvenue Denis!

The picture thing is some kind of spam filter that will disappear once your number of posts on the forum goes up, or something to that effect...

I'm also curious to see what other will say about your project...

DC (another Denis)

 

[Scrit]

Hi Denis

Here's your piccies:

Scrit

ModEdit: Removed now as they are in the original post.

 

[Denis]

Thanks, Scrit - it makes my ramblings easier to understand

 

[Newbie_Neil]

Welcome Denis

Glad to have you onboard.

Cheers
Neil

 

[Scrit]

I don't know if this is of any help but here is a Marples BB "drawer bottom" plough plane with 3 cutters which I have. It is over 30 years old and yet the cutters appear never to have been sharpened. It belonged the the father of a late frind of mine. Maybe I should get rid of the rust

Scrit

 

[Philly]

Hi Denis
Welcome to the forum!
Your plane - you have two options. You can make a plane using the sandwich method, making the centre section as wide as your chosen iron. This then is the sole of the plane. The two cheeks are cut shorter on the bottom edges, giving clearance for the depth of cut.
The second option is to add a metal skate like a plough plane. This then becomes the sole and you can use different width irons in the same plane.
Also, give some thought to a fence. You can clamp a board to the work to guide the plane as you make the cut or you can incorporate a fence into the design. An adjustable fence is very handy!
Here is an adjustable drawer bottom plane I made, very similar to what I have described.
Hope this helps
Philly [/url]

 

[Philly]

Oops! Look like we cross posted, Scrit! Snap :lol:
Philly

 

[Scrit]

Oops! Look like we cross posted, Scrit! Snap :lol:
Philly

Great minds think alike, eh?

 

[Denis]

Philly, Scrit, thank you both for the ideas...

The drawer bottom plane looks like the thing I need.

How do you fit different width irons in there? It would be very useful to be able to fit several irons to the same plane...

I mean, if the groove/hollow (or whatever it's called) in the plane for the iron is wide enough for the widest blade (let's say 10mm), when you fit e.g 5mm blade in there, doesn't it "wiggle" left and right?

Or the irons are tapered - i.e. the upper part which goes in the plane is the same for all blades, and only the "business end" width varies?

I can't really tell from the photos, and it seems like the only logical explanation.

Otherwise, if you have an iron which is 5mm wide all the way, there would surely be some left-right play, even with the wedge....

So, I guess all the irons are e.g. 10mm wide in the upper part (if the groove is 10mm wide), and the lower part (cutting end) gets narrower - e.g. the opposite of the usual rebate plane iron (which is thin in the upper part, and wide on the cutting end)?

Am I on the right track?

BTW, thanks for the welcome

Denis

 

[Philly]

Denis
Two options - keep the tang of the irons all the same width or, secondly, a groove is machined into the rear of the irons which registers onto the skate, keeping them centered.
Hope this helps
Philly

 

[MikeW]

Hi Denis--Welcome!

Here are a couple close-up pictures of my wood plow. In them you can see the iron with the V-groove and the leading portion of the rear skate which has a corresponding V filed onto it. this way different iron widths can be used in the same plane.

Take care, Mike

 

[Paul Chapman]

Welcome to the forum, Denis.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Denis]

Thanks for the suggestions, folks....

I had a look here:

https://www.fine-tools.com/G301053.htm

and saw the set of irons for that plane. Now I get the picture

Then Mike posted his photos, and now it's all clear.

However, I guess I'll make mine single-iron for starters - it should be a lot easier to do for a first DIY plane 8-[

But, I can see that a new order for blades will be going out soon, somewhat different design this time.

I'm lucky to have a friend who works for a company that does some serious metalwork, and who has access to their toolworks, so I can get the blades made to my specifications.

Thanks,

Denis

 

[pam niedermayer]

There's a lot to be said for having one plane for every blade. Among other things, each plane is always set up properly, you only need change it for sharpening.

Pam

 

[ac445ab]

Hi Denis
This grooving plane I have is very simple.

It has the design of a bench plane for the throat and skates at bottom side are inserted into grooves. The depth of groove the plane cuts is fixed but there is a lateral fence.
It had missed the iron, so I made a knew one from a file. In this case is 6 mm large.

It works very well!

You could make the plane body whit the sandwich method.
For some reason the threaded rods are mounted on the fence :?:
Normally they are fixed to plane body.

Ciao,
Giuliano

 

[JesseM]

If you are looking to buy a book, might I suggest Making Traditional Handplanes by John Whelan. It details how to construct the plow plane that is pictured on the cover. It also includes numerous others, dadoes, hollows and rounds. I'm not sure how available it is for you, but its a great reference if you can find it.

 

[Denis]

Jesse, thanks for the book suggestion - but I'm trying to restrain myself to the essentials. If I continue this way, I'll soon be making my own blacksmith forge in the back yard, soon to follow by mining my own iron ore :roll:

Giuliano, thanks for the photos - that's an interesting plane and concept.
Before I found my source for plane irons, I purchased several second-hand files, intending to use them for blades Luckily, that was not necessary.

Could you provide some more photos of your plane - the underside would also be interesting to see.

I guess if I go with sandwich method for the plane, I could still use an iron "skate" on the bottom, which would be much more wear-resistant, and the skate could be fixed to the body with a couple of screws going through the body of the plane - but I don't think that's really necessary. Gluing the skate into the groove on the sole with epoxy should work fine, as long as the part of the skate that goes into the sole/body of the plane is left a bit rough, so that it resists "sliding".

A fence of some kind would be nice, although I can always use some kind of a guide clamped to the workpiece. I wonder about a depth stop - it would be easier to design and implement than the fence, and could also be useful.

In short, there are many options and useful designs. I just have to restrain myself, since this will be my first DIY plane, and I should keep it simple if I really want to see it finished soon

Thanks,

Denis

 

[ac445ab]

....

Giuliano, thanks for the photos - that's an interesting plane and concept.
Before I found my source for plane irons, I purchased several second-hand files, intending to use them for blades Luckily, that was not necessary.

Could you provide some more photos of your plane - the underside would also be interesting to see. ........

Sorry for bad quality of pics.
The skates (I changed them) were made by a metal plate easily you can find in your hardware shop. For more security I screwed them (the screws are under the thin metal plates you can see on the side of plane body).
It is very important to project accurately the wedge for having the bigger room possible for shaving escapement without clogging.

Ciao,
Giuliano